The RetroClone Bandwagon: I'm off of it.

[Chainsaw]

I love that PnP's head re-shaping has come up in a discussion of clones.

[Matthew]

Oh, it's not that big a drama. I had a septoplasty, which is an operation to straighten the septum. On a skull, if you look at the nose, there's a thin slice of bone running up between the two nostrils. That's the septum. On most skulls it's straight but in my case it was sort of S-shaped, which was blocking both my nostrils.

The operation involved opening up the flesh and cartilage of the nose to get to the bone behind, and it was meant to clear the passages in my nose. In the short term it has completely the opposite effect--right now, the inside of my nose is a mass of stitches, my sinuses feel like they've been packed with English mustard and the tip of my nose is swollen and bulbous. I look like Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer with a bad head cold.

But it was a routine, planned operation and in the end I should be able to breathe better. I'm off work for a couple of weeks in the meantime because I'm not supposed to have contact with anyone who might give me a head cold, and I was hoping to get some writing done, but unfortunately I can't think straight enough at the moment.

Ah, not so bad then. My father had that procedure forty years and more ago when he was serving in the army, but it was a bit of a botched job. I hope that yours turns out better!

[bbarsh]

All of my Pacesetter modules are OSRIC, although the first three actually use Basic/Expert D&D rules. They are being revised to be fully OSRIC compliant. I decided to keep all future products in the OSRIC line. That said, I pretty much write/design them with the absolute belief that they will be used in AD&D games. Most were written for AD&D originally and I am not about to change that.

As a player I do like S&W. But it is a convention game for me as I have not played it anywhere else. I like to collect everything S&W because I like the product and I want to support the old school in any way I can.

[Benoist]

More importantly, I'm glad Stuart is doing fine. Hopefully your head will either be feeling clearer or full of feverish inspiration! The Rudolph look is seasonal at least.

Ditto! Get well soon, Stuart. Don't push it, mate.

[AxeMental]

@tholian:

Say you write an AD&D module for your friends and play through it. One of your players says "that module was the fucking dog's bollocks, you should publish it". OSRIC will let you legally do that without breaching copyright. Maybe many who buy it will play it under AD&D (as did you and your group), but that's not the point.

More importantly, I'm glad Stuart is doing fine. Hopefully your head will either be feeling clearer or full of feverish inspiration! The Rudolph look is seasonal at least.

This is what I'd like to see more of too. Publishers like EXPR are great, but there's no reason you can't do it yourself (even for profit).

[geneweigel]

I know if I were producing commercial product (which, thankfully, I'm not) I would be going out of my way to make it very clear to everyone that James Raggi does not speak for me and I have never been a part of and want nothing to do with his "movement," .

Again... news to me. Where does all this nonsense go down on blogs or something?

Yes, it was all on blogs - first Jim Raggi's blog, and then Tim Kask posted a rejoinder on RJK's blog, and then RJK did a follow-on post. Plus all the commenters weighing in. It was a big little tempest for a while.

Ahh its a literal black hole effect! That explains it. I've been actively ignoring that whole scene so thats why.

On a side note regarding places I'd rather not go, I got sucked into reading some super smug forum the other day where they talk about grognards (One of my "legion of nephews" pointed it out to me because apparently he wants to give me an ulcer...).

[PatW]

The flip-side of the terminology problem is that at least one "OSR" publisher (James Raggi) very much has tried to co-opt the term not just to indicate a publishing phenomenon but as a "movement" that he is the lead proponent and poster-child and #1 cheerleader of, and which he curates the membership-list of.

That's a problem that will "go away." He's promoting his particular RPG pretty heavily and branding the supplements by other authors he's publishing as well with that same stamp. I think it will end up becoming his own thing, some sort of "transgressive RPG" niche product.

OSR is a brand in and of itself, I really don't think he can continue to be OSR and build an LotFP-exclusive identity at the same time.

So to people who don't want to be on Raggi's bandwagon -- who might, in fact, viscerally hate James Raggi and think he's an annoying self-important douchebag fuckstick -- the burden is on them to distance themselves from being de-facto part of a movement they want nothing to do with but have been included in without their consent.

Let's not mince words - how do you really feel?

[tacojohn4547]

More importantly, I'm glad Stuart is doing fine. Hopefully your head will either be feeling clearer or full of feverish inspiration! The Rudolph look is seasonal at least.

Ditto! Get well soon, Stuart. Don't push it, mate.

This, indeed. Do get well, Stuart.

[T. Foster]

Let's not mince words - how do you really feel?

Well, with kellri still MIA someone has to pick up the slack of Raggi-hate. It's, like, traditional

[EldradWolfsbane]

I would have to say we all need to use the libertarian view of things which we all learned in kindergarten but some of us have forgot.

"Keep your hands to yourself and if you can't say something nice then don't say it at all."

BUT ANYWAY...

The terms and beliefs of the OSR terminology police (if there is such an organization) really don't matter. In the already very small OSR movement they are even smaller. From what I can see most people who know about retro clones like/accept them even if they play them or not.

BUT if they do grow larger more power too them!


PS: To the OP:

Next time don't throw away your copies of your games. Give them away to someone. When BFRPG was revision every 10 minutes all kinds of people got copies of BFRPG. Ya never know you just might create some new gamers.

Most likely I have confused everyone so I shall go!

[Tholianweb]

Say you write an AD&D module for your friends and play through it. One of your players says "that module was the fucking dog's bollocks, you should publish it". OSRIC will let you legally do that without breaching copyright. Maybe many who buy it will play it under AD&D (as did you and your group), but that's not the point.

The majority of pre-written modules authored by myself are tournamnet style modules that I run at gaming conventions. I have been asked before if I was interested in marketing my work and as much as I am blushing about it, I prefer to keep my work as low key as possible. Maybe when I pass on and leave all my stuff behind, i will let someone else deal with that burden. I am not interested in making profit or trying to outshine anyone in the gaming world because being humble will get you a lot further in life and in other cases, the afterlife.

I will also add that every tournamnet module I authored for use at a convention utilized 1st edition or 2nd edition rules without one iota of resentment from staff of WOTC who were at these conventions. As a matter of fact, I will be doing a 3.5 tournament module in addition to a 2nd edition tournament module in the coming conventions.

[AxeMental]

Btw, we did play a couple games of OSRIC only. Was a blast (as you might expect).

[oldgamergeek]

I like the retro clones they allow new players to try old style play for little or no money. (many can be downloaded free) I also play OD&D, AD&D, all Traveller including Mongoose and the dreaded 4th edition sure there are new games that are good, even the latest D&D has a following
what we need to remember is this is not Original vs retro clone vs modern. I game to have fun if a game is not or group is not fun I will do something else. Remember we are all GAMERS now lets slay some Orcs.

[Wheggi]

I like the retro clones they allow new players to try old style play for little or no money. (many can be downloaded free) I also play OD&D, AD&D, all Traveller including Mongoose and the dreaded 4th edition sure there are new games that are good, even the latest D&D has a following
what we need to remember is this is not Original vs retro clone vs modern. I game to have fun if a game is not or group is not fun I will do something else. Remember we are all GAMERS now lets slay some Orcs.

(On the screen in front of Wheggi a member has posted a plea for brotherly peace, a proclamation of inclusiveness that at its very core is a shining example of maturity and positive thinking. If more members of the broader gaming community adopted the mindset of oldgamergeek there would be less strife and inevitably more constructive conversation on the internet. Imagine! Gamers young and old - from LBB toting grognards to virtual table pilots - coming together, arms open, singing praises for our hobby. We would be a united force, a vanguard for RPGs in general and Dungeons and Dragons in particular. Defenders of a once-dying hobby, heralds of a New Era of Gaming! It would be glorious. And it could all start right here.
Heady stuff.
Wheggi scratches his belly, fishes something from his teeth with his tongue. Chicken gristle? Yes, definately chicken. Then he cracks his fingers, and types. . . )

Their game sucks. My game is better.

- Wheggi

[Juju EyeBall]

Wheggi scratches his belly, fishes something from his teeth with his tongue. Chicken gristle? Yes, definately chicken. Then he cracks his fingers, and types. . . [/i])

Their game sucks. My game is better.

- Wheggi