The RetroClone Bandwagon: I'm off of it.

[Tholianweb]

You aren't alone in being someone who plays other editions, here, including at least one admin I know of. I just wanted to give you some of the historical landscape of this particular site, because it's not symmetrical here (meaning that you might have seen attacks on some editions without realizing that other editions are protected) - attacking 1e is bannable, attacking 0e is something that would probably get a PM warning, attacking OSRIC would get a PM appeal or a public reminder, attacking S&W would probably be tolerated but get fired at, attacking something 2e or later should just get the thread locked but is often allowed to go on for quite a while. A long time ago the decision was made that as an "old school Gygaxian site" we weren't going to try to be universally fair or tolerant, we were going to structure the site around its actual purpose.

Fair enough and consider me eduacated on this subject.

[Mythmere]

You aren't alone in being someone who plays other editions, here, including at least one admin I know of. I just wanted to give you some of the historical landscape of this particular site, because it's not symmetrical here (meaning that you might have seen attacks on some editions without realizing that other editions are protected) - attacking 1e is bannable, attacking 0e is something that would probably get a PM warning, attacking OSRIC would get a PM appeal or a public reminder, attacking S&W would probably be tolerated but get fired at, attacking something 2e or later should just get the thread locked but is often allowed to go on for quite a while. A long time ago the decision was made that as an "old school Gygaxian site" we weren't going to try to be universally fair or tolerant, we were going to structure the site around its actual purpose.

Fair enough and consider me eduacated on this subject.

BTW, welcome to the site, though I'm several posts late on the greeting. Sticking to your guns is a sign that you'll enjoy the site and fit in well! And since 1e is your bag, there's a lot of it here.

[Juju EyeBall]

I think that the importance of OSRIC and S&W as the catalysts for the resurgance of intrest in old-school gaming cannot be overstated. Obviously their value to the individual can only be weighed against that individuals access or interest in the systems that they emulate.
There will be many for whom their usefulness will be negated due to unfettered access to their original forms. If using a retro-clone ruleset is unnecessary for you, count yourself lucky as you are one of those who can tap into the original sources of "old-school" but consider for a moment that there are many who do enjoy that luxury and for them, without the existence of a retro-clone it would be exceedingly difficult or nigh impossible for them to have a method for accessing this style of gaming. Use or Non-Use of retro-clone is hardly a litmus test with which to validate a gamers credibility nor is it a activity that there is a benefit to becoming dogmatic about, in my opinion and getting caught up in such nonsense is counterproductive to enjoyment of the game itself. It's of undeniable value that those using OSRIC and 1e can speak in relative terms and benefit from each others knowledge. It would be highly regrettable if OSRIC players and 1e players would be considered as two different groups to be segregated from one another due to preference of system when the differences are so subtle as to be unnoticeable.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

DungeonDork, either you meant "cannot be overstated" when you wrote "cannot be understated", or else your whole post makes no sense to me at all.

Mind you, I'm easily confused at the moment because I'm recovering from having my skull reshaped by a surgeon, so ignore me if I'm talking utter nonsense.

[Juju EyeBall]

Yeah, overstated.


fixed it.

[Benoist]

Fair enough and consider me eduacated on this subject.

Yeah, I like other iterations of the game besides 0e and 1e. Now, I know not to make a huge stink because some people here might vent about some other iteration of the game, and I know not to rub lengthy posts about said iterations into some people's faces while posting on the alehouse. Frankly, I just know where they're coming from, and I understand. But that's not why I'm here. I'm here because I love 0e and 1e, and want to share the love.

So yeah. You're not the only one, for sure.

[Matthew]

Mind you, I'm easily confused at the moment because I'm recovering from having my skull reshaped by a surgeon, so ignore me if I'm talking utter nonsense.

Ouch! What happened to necessitate that?

[Benoist]

Mind you, I'm easily confused at the moment because I'm recovering from having my skull reshaped by a surgeon, so ignore me if I'm talking utter nonsense.

Ouch! What happened to necessitate that?

Oh yes. I had not noticed that remark. What happened?

[T. Foster]

Elective plastic surgery to make himself look more like Tom Baker?

[geneweigel]

That's where Dan Proctor's Advanced Edition Companion enters the picture.

So its a clone of Companion and Master?

[Matthew]

So its a clone of Companion and Master?

It is a kind of half-way house between B/X and AD&D.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Oh, it's not that big a drama. I had a septoplasty, which is an operation to straighten the septum. On a skull, if you look at the nose, there's a thin slice of bone running up between the two nostrils. That's the septum. On most skulls it's straight but in my case it was sort of S-shaped, which was blocking both my nostrils.

The operation involved opening up the flesh and cartilage of the nose to get to the bone behind, and it was meant to clear the passages in my nose. In the short term it has completely the opposite effect--right now, the inside of my nose is a mass of stitches, my sinuses feel like they've been packed with English mustard and the tip of my nose is swollen and bulbous. I look like Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer with a bad head cold.

But it was a routine, planned operation and in the end I should be able to breathe better. I'm off work for a couple of weeks in the meantime because I'm not supposed to have contact with anyone who might give me a head cold, and I was hoping to get some writing done, but unfortunately I can't think straight enough at the moment.

[geneweigel]

The flip-side of the terminology problem is that at least one "OSR" publisher (James Raggi) very much has tried to co-opt the term not just to indicate a publishing phenomenon but as a "movement" that he is the lead proponent and poster-child and #1 cheerleader of, and which he curates the membership-list of. So it's not just outside naysayers and critics setting up strawmen, it's at least one very prominent insider saying loudly and repeatedly "there is a bandwagon and you're on it whether you want to be or not (and, btw, I'm driving)." So to people who don't want to be on Raggi's bandwagon -- who might, in fact, viscerally hate James Raggi and think he's an annoying self-important douchebag fuckstick -- the burden is on them to distance themselves from being de-facto part of a movement they want nothing to do with but have been included in without their consent. I know if I were producing commercial product (which, thankfully, I'm not) I would be going out of my way to make it very clear to everyone that James Raggi does not speak for me and I have never been a part of and want nothing to do with his "movement," because it would make me physically ill to think that people out there might mistakenly put him and me in the same boat.

Again... news to me. Where does all this nonsense go down on blogs or something?

[Mythmere]

The flip-side of the terminology problem is that at least one "OSR" publisher (James Raggi) very much has tried to co-opt the term not just to indicate a publishing phenomenon but as a "movement" that he is the lead proponent and poster-child and #1 cheerleader of, and which he curates the membership-list of. So it's not just outside naysayers and critics setting up strawmen, it's at least one very prominent insider saying loudly and repeatedly "there is a bandwagon and you're on it whether you want to be or not (and, btw, I'm driving)." So to people who don't want to be on Raggi's bandwagon -- who might, in fact, viscerally hate James Raggi and think he's an annoying self-important douchebag fuckstick -- the burden is on them to distance themselves from being de-facto part of a movement they want nothing to do with but have been included in without their consent. I know if I were producing commercial product (which, thankfully, I'm not) I would be going out of my way to make it very clear to everyone that James Raggi does not speak for me and I have never been a part of and want nothing to do with his "movement," because it would make me physically ill to think that people out there might mistakenly put him and me in the same boat.

Again... news to me. Where does all this nonsense go down on blogs or something?

Yes, it was all on blogs - first Jim Raggi's blog, and then Tim Kask posted a rejoinder on RJK's blog, and then RJK did a follow-on post. Plus all the commenters weighing in. It was a big little tempest for a while.

[Werral]

@tholian:

Say you write an AD&D module for your friends and play through it. One of your players says "that module was the fucking dog's bollocks, you should publish it". OSRIC will let you legally do that without breaching copyright. Maybe many who buy it will play it under AD&D (as did you and your group), but that's not the point.

More importantly, I'm glad Stuart is doing fine. Hopefully your head will either be feeling clearer or full of feverish inspiration! The Rudolph look is seasonal at least.