Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Not bad.

francisca wrote:Not bad.

In the words of the great sage Nomi Malone: it doesn't suck!

WSmith wrote:Considering what those covers could have looked like, I can live with this.

YES!

Nah, still feeling used and abused boys.

Give me the original covers (change the dress a bit I can see that) or something brand new that doesn't suck (done in the style of Tramp. Maybe the original adventurers from the PH going into the next great room).

And get these into the damned B&N. If they sell these to us only (guys that have a stack of these already on our bookshelves) what it doing for our cause. I want 1E to take off in the general public, not 5E.

AxeMental wrote: And get these into the damned B&N.

Why? Who shops at bricks'n'mortar stores anymore? Especially for something like books?

Flambeaux wrote:

AxeMental wrote: And get these into the damned B&N.

Why? Who shops at bricks'n'mortar stores anymore? Especially for something like books?

Alot of people. They're more bookstores in my town now then ever before...way more. They are bigger and have better selections (never mind the expresso, tables and big ass arm chairs) given the economy thats amazing. Plus, if your trying to reach the millions of players that once played 1E, your not going to find them online (hell, most that still play 1E don't go online to forums I suspect). Your more likely to find them at B&N with little Billy in tow trying to find something to bond with. BAM! "The 1E AD&D Handbook, holly crap, I remember that"! That impulse is what gets parents to buy LIFE, Monopoly etc. (I had fun with that as a kid, I bet my own children would have fun playing it too, thats exactly what I did). Hey, I realize its 1E AD&D back in print, and that is cool. But, what I fear is a "we tried it your way, it didn't work, now move on" ploy. I don't want to see the fire die out (OSRIC, LL, S&W, EXPR, BBld, etc). If you get my jist. Sometimes the way to overcome something...even destroy it...is to just give in and once people see there's no hoopla they give up. "see we did what you wanted, there's no evidence of interest" then everyone moves to D&Dx. What about OSRIC, what about S&W?

"Why OSRIC"? says prospective newbie "when we have the original books and modules",...blank faces.... "they're history books right...collectable

SO, "? Fuckthat shit on a stick.

Paranoia, maybe. Maybe not. Just remember, we are about new 1E AD&D material, not "history" entirely. We are the head of a spear. If they dull our point, they dull the potential of a movement to come (perhaps we are closer then we know). Plus, haven't you guys used the "don't piss on me and tell me its raining" line before. I'd like to think the better of WOTC....but its WOTC, always a full bladder. Right?

AxeMental wrote:I want 1E to take off in the general public, not 5E.

It looks to me as if that was the idea when these covers were designed.

They have the feel of the 3/4e fake-leather-bound covers, but with the iconic old-school "avatars" of the 3 core tomes emblazoned on them.

My understanding is that the Ltd Edition reprints won't be available at retailers like B&N.

But given that Borders went under last year, and I don't think B&N will be around in 5 years, I'm amused at your expectation that all the Resurgence of 1E requires is to be put into brick'n'mortar stores.

Flambeaux wrote:My understanding is that the Ltd Edition reprints won't be available at retailers like B&N. But given that Borders went under last year, and I don't think B&N will be around in 5 years, I'm amused at your expectation that all the Resurgence of 1E requires is to be put into brick'n'mortar stores.

Flam check this out: http://www.quora.com/Borders-Books/Why- ... bankruptcy And I don't think that. Even with a major B&M marketing move to bring 1E back from the grave it might never happen. But HASBRO (not WOTC) has the deep pockets for that. They think long term. They could stick 1E back on the shelves and wait...the way they do with other brands. As for B&N being out of existance in 5 years. I don't see that. People are buying books at B&N online (so Amazon may have started something but B&N is cetching up) and socialize at the book stores. Online will never replace real life or real people in the flesh and blood. People want tangible things (want to see what its like) before they buy.

AustinJimm, I agree 100%. These covers lack the magic of the originals. They exclude the subject (the mystery, the team work, and the adventure) and focus on the historical element, and cheapify them "look pop out kiddie D&D". I realize alot of the K&K regulars (and online regulars in general) fall all over themselves for anything 1E. I know guys that want to buy a dozen. But thats not me. I have service-able copies. What I want to see are the guys that outsmarted the fox, that created the OSR (most of them are regulars here) to not fall into some kind of damned baron munchausen slumber. Nor do I want to see the guys that are taking notice of OSRIC and S&W to suddenly get pulled away by fresher bait, only to have it jerked out of the water at the last minute and replaced with 5E's promise of "we have a basic 5E thats just like 1E" when its not. I guess what it boils down to is this: I see 1E as the best game ever created, I still have more fun playing it then anything else. My goal is not to "get mine" but to hopefully see future generations "get theres". Is it so strange to want to see good things about my world continue for future generations. Sure its just a game. But its also how we all escaped the boredom of living in a real world with no magic, and flexed our imaginations in a way fiction could never allow... a sort of freedom of the imagination. It also brought kids together that would normally never have hung out (geeks with cool kids). Perhaps I see 1E AD&D as a sort of Excalibur, I don't know. Something worth something as opposed to the many things that survive worth nothing.

"Not horrible" is my first reaction.

By the way, there's been some speculation that WotC couldn't use the original covers for various technological reasons -- didn't have the original art, etc. So, I'm not horribly broken up about them not using the originals. If it's impossible, it's impossible. Anyway, if that speculation is true, I'm far more in favor of them going this route than about any other route they could have gone.

Now, anyone wanna bet whether they have 7th level clerics level titles as "prefect," "perfect," or blank?

rogatny wrote:Now, anyone wanna bet whether they have 7th level clerics level titles as "prefect," "perfect," or blank?

My money's on blank.

All of that could theoretically be on a white board somewhere in Hasbro, Inc.

But I have to admit - if I'm a Hasbro line manager who has a passing familiarity with D&D but to whom it is largely another widget among many, I would require we do a small acid-test to see how quick 10,000 of them move before ponying up capital for a big roll-out.

I hope they put the right printing number and date in.

More or less I agree with AxeMental in that I would have preferred great new covers to concealed versions of the old ones, but then "great" is subjective enough we would probably be debating whether the new covers were any good and complaining that they had not just used the old ones.

Yeah, I'm not hating on the covers, but I am surprised at the reactions of "awesome" and "gorgeous". I'm seeing "good enough".

AxeMental wrote:...

Axe, I don't understand what you were realistically expecting out of these covers. As far as I'm concerned when I look at these images I think AD&D 1e dodged a major bullet. Yeah, all that border sucks and is a waste of space and the original PHB & DMG full compositions are much better. But, if you think of the art that's been on official D&D products since the late 80s, why would you want to risk an all new piece on the front of the PHB or DMG? My expectations bar was so low, these covers easily clear it. Plus, if you're familiar with the original covers, there's no doubt you'll immediately recognize what's going on (AD&D 1e is back in print) and that's the most important factor. That wouldn't necessarily be the case even with a well-done new cover (which I'd estimate was about .1% likely to happen).

I agree with you 100%, though, in regard to distribution. These books are tailor made for the book browser. Countless times from the late 80s - 90s - early 00s I'd browse the D&D section of brick & mortar books stores and hobby shops. Over time, the art and feel of what I saw became worse and worse and farther and farther from recognizable to me as D&D. These books (with these covers) will stand out as the D&D the browser remembers. I think distributing these books at Barnes & Noble, at Amazon.com (esp. with Recommendations section), etc. would bring in significant additional sales. I stop short of Wal-Mart and Target because I think a reprint of boxed basic (with an ad inside about the 1e books) is the better product there.