Knights & Knaves Alehouse

thedungeondelver wrote:

Falconer wrote: I’m not surprised it doesn’t say Advanced on the cover. After all, it’s not Advanced in relation to 4e. It’s Classic in relation to 4e.

it's advanced if you're some simpleton mong who thinks you should get savegames (yes I've seen this - going all the way back to 3.0) or that the rust monster, green slime, grey ooze, etc. and save v. death, level drain etc. for 1e are just there to promulgate "bad" DMing.

Nerelas wrote:These covers bug me. The beauty of the original Tramp (PHB) and Sutherland (DMG) covers is that they both tell a story (adventurers looting the temple/lair of the lizard men, and TPK against the backdrop of the City of Brass , respectively). These new ones don't tell a story, they take a random line from a paragraph in the story and give it to you without context. Obviously, they couldn't have done any worse with the MM cover than the original .

Odhanan wrote: I would expect something akin to the PHB2 of 3rd ed, that is, a sturdy carton cover with a glossy finish, rather than "leatherette". That's what these covers look like to me. And I honestly would be floored if the binding was crap. WotC's products are very high quality in that regard (I got a near complete 3rd ed WotC books collection holding very well with the passage of time to prove it, actually).

Nerelas wrote:These covers bug me. The beauty of the original Tramp (PHB) and Sutherland (DMG) covers is that they both tell a story (adventurers looting the temple/lair of the lizard men, and TPK against the backdrop of the City of Brass , respectively). These new ones don't tell a story, they take a random line from a paragraph in the story and give it to you without context. Obviously, they couldn't have done any worse with the MM cover than the original .

Chainsaw wrote:I dunno, I think they're just trying to capitalize on old school interest to make a few bucks in between 4E and 5E. If it creates some goodwill going into 5E, then that would be a bonus for them. I'm probably being naive though..

AxeMental wrote:

Nerelas wrote:These covers bug me. The beauty of the original Tramp (PHB) and Sutherland (DMG) covers is that they both tell a story (adventurers looting the temple/lair of the lizard men, and TPK against the backdrop of the City of Brass , respectively). These new ones don't tell a story, they take a random line from a paragraph in the story and give it to you without context. Obviously, they couldn't have done any worse with the MM cover than the original .

OK upon mulling this over, I'm getting a bad feeling about all of this ( suspect Nerelas is too). I think this rerelease is being used to help end the OSR. WOTC thinking: 1. Divide and concure. Suddenly a good portion of the OSR are thinking WOTC and focusing on them rather then those that really have the best interest of 1E at heart (OSRIC and its publishers). Give them candy to lead them away from the OSR and toward WOTC, where we bait them with more 5E candy. 2. proof the sales of 1E suck and that there is no market "we tried it your way now shut the fuck up and move on". (they use lame commercial dress and give a historical tribute feel to the original covers, removing, as Nerelas suggests, the "magic" from the covers, plus not pushing this for new players at all. I'd rather have seen new artwork and a serious attempt at getting the 1E game to spark. But thats not their intention. 3. An attempt to get us to be all warm and fuzzy when 5E does come out: "We gave in and rereleased 1E, so please don't take a dump on 5E when it comes out and looks more like 3E then anything else. We don't want any negative press".

The thing that really bothers me is that I know 1E is a better game (as a general public game) because its easier and faster to play (Monoploy vs. Allies and Axis) the 1E market never left TSR, TSR left the market. But its not going to ever get a fair shake from WOTC, not because 1E is a looser and wouldn't sell books and become profitable. But because WOTC's design team and its current management are premadanas wanting to put their stamp on D&D. It boils down to an ownership of ideas and who is "Great". CHange and "improvement" justifies their pay and existance (this often happens when the owner of IP is not the creator of it, or even understands the market). They still see 1E as a stepping stone to better things (ie. what they come up with) rather then the end all be all of FPRGs (the way Chess has hit its ideal form). And why should we expect any different when they have taste polar opposite of those who liked 1E? How can we expect guys that came up with the idiotic stupidity of 3E to ever design something cool (or be able to acknowledge it)? They seriously don't "get" 1E, and never will.

So I for one won't be buying the new books, I don't see the point in doing something nice for WOTC when they aren't really trying to do something nice for 1E (and may be trying to manipulate us with it). Not unless I get some sort of vibe that these guys are seriously trying to relaunch 1E in some form. I'd prefer to ignore WOTC for now on. Focus on the rebirth of 1E as a viable game, and let them prove us wrong. If any of you get sucked into the NDA "lets all build this game together" crap, let us know how it works out in the end. Expect to be disappointed as the game suddenly takes a lurch toward 3E. Hate to be a rainy sort of chap...but thats the vibe I'm getting.

PatW wrote:I take it all at face value.

a. The 1e short-term re-release is just a goodwill gesture, because despite not 100% getting it's appeal, some guy at WotC has fond memories of it and wants to help the Gygax Memorial

b. The OSR is not in any danger, because we're a bunch of middle-aged men who don't buy new product anyway and just shake our fists angrily

c. Whatever attention the OSR gets from WotC is because we're doing interesting things, not because of any market share we represent

I absolutely 100% don't buy any conspiracy theories.