Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Actually we should all probably just meet at Axe's place since he is only an hour away from either of us

Just received a "goodbye and thanks for all the fish" email from Borders. Seems like the liqaudation sales start tomorrow. Not sure how long they will go for but the end seems pretty damn nigh.

JasonZavoda wrote:Just received a "goodbye and thanks for all the fish" email from Borders. Seems like the liqaudation sales start tomorrow. Not sure how long they will go for but the end seems pretty damn nigh.

Indeed, I got it too.

Stonegiant wrote:Actually we should all probably just meet at Axe's place since he is only an hour away from either of us

I am not carrying a metric ton of Dwarven Forge 500 miles!

A slight counterpoint to the Borders fiasco in my local paper.

Chainsaw wrote:A slight counterpoint to the Borders fiasco in my local paper.

I don't really see that as a counterpoint. The article mentions they had to cut spending and cut employee hours to stay afloat until some local competition bled to death. Signing a new five-year lease sounds like a pretty big risk in that situation.

My favorite bookstore has also had to cut hours, but it's not because of online competition, it's because of the city's grand new pay-parking scheme. It's slowly murdering the city's small businesses, or rather just the ones that are located in the affected area. (I'm sure many people are used to such things, but Arkansans are pig-headed and don't like to be charged for things that used to be free.)

Random wrote:

Chainsaw wrote:A slight counterpoint to the Borders fiasco in my local paper.

I don't really see that as a counterpoint. The article mentions they had to cut spending and cut employee hours to stay afloat until some local competition bled to death. Signing a new five-year lease sounds like a pretty big risk in that situation.

Yeah, I guess I just meant that although some big box stores seem to be going out of business, maybe it's still possible for a few small, independent, local stores to survive and offer the classic bookstore experience, even in the Amazon age.

I think the entire future of brick bookstores is likely to be used bookstores. A brand-new book is a brand-new book, regardless of where you get it. It's generally cheaper online (and Amazon provides free shipping), so that's where I will buy a new book. To do otherwise would seem silly.

Used books, however, vary so much in condition that it's always nice to hold the actual book you're going to be buy. (It's kinda like used records; you'd feel bad purchasing one unseen.) And while there are many used books to be had online, that's not where your average person disposes of their used books. Most people just head to the local used bookstore and dump them for a couple of bucks. The result is that the local bookstore has (usually) the lowest prices. If not, your local bookstore is screwing you.

As for selection, that just depends on your bookstore. Many times a book is so obscure that you can find it locally but not online. Occasionally, I find a book where mere information about it eludes me on the internet.

Flambeaux wrote:Ditto here.

Half Price is doing gangbusters in this economy. But when I go in I'm looking for stuff the mainline retailers don't carry: OOP texts, especially in Latin or Greek, and hard-to-find homeschooling texts that I don't want to order brand new.

And, for the most part, I'm buying through AbeBooks more than even Amazon these days.

All these big book store chains closing might actually be good news in the mid-term for specialized book stores carrying local prints or specialty readings.

Random wrote:I think the entire future of brick bookstores is likely to be used bookstores. A brand-new book is a brand-new book, regardless of where you get it. It's generally cheaper online (and Amazon provides free shipping), so that's where I will buy a new book. To do otherwise would seem silly.

Used books, however, vary so much in condition that it's always nice to hold the actual book you're going to be buy. (It's kinda like used records; you'd feel bad purchasing one unseen.) And while there are many used books to be had online, that's not where your average person disposes of their used books. Most people just head to the local used bookstore and dump them for a couple of bucks. The result is that the local bookstore has (usually) the lowest prices. If not, your local bookstore is screwing you.

As for selection, that just depends on your bookstore. Many times a book is so obscure that you can find it locally but not online. Occasionally, I find a book where mere information about it eludes me on the internet.

A used bookstore can't afford to just buy any book coming in. Storage costs money and at some point a used bookstore owner realizes that even a few pennys on a dollar for some books means pennys never to be recovered. I'm really not sure how a used bookstore is going to survive unless it is some kind of specialty store. So, a used bookstore pays rent, pays taxes, pays utilities, pays for inventory (very speculative inventory for the most part) sometimes pays for employees... and then has to compete with online sellers either selling new desirable books at a discount or low ball prices from people selling off collection or resellers who make their profits on quantity or shipping overcharge.

Add in this terrible economy and growing iliteracy and I just don't see non-chain bookstores making a comeback, not as a non-specialized book store. It would be nice, but I can't imagine it here in the Bos-Wash area.

Location, location, location. The bookstore I mentioned is just down the road from the state's largest university. They are not hurting for business, other than the recent incident mentioned.

I went to Borders today. Lots of people in the store, discount not very good. I like bookstores, but I buy most my books used or from amazon.

JasonZavoda wrote:and then has to compete with online sellers either selling new desirable books at a discount or low ball prices from people selling off collection or resellers who make their profits on quantity or shipping overcharge.

Most of the used bookstore owners I have known put their stock online, either through Amazon, Ebay or similar sites. Most of the people making their profits through shipping overcharge (i.e. selling books for 5 cents and making 25 cents by shipping cheaper than the alotted amount) own a used bookstore.

blackprinceofmuncie wrote:

JasonZavoda wrote:and then has to compete with online sellers either selling new desirable books at a discount or low ball prices from people selling off collection or resellers who make their profits on quantity or shipping overcharge.

Most of the used bookstore owners I have known put their stock online, either through Amazon, Ebay or similar sites. Most of the people making their profits through shipping overcharge (i.e. selling books for 5 cents and making 25 cents by shipping cheaper than the alotted amount) own a used bookstore.

Which is an excellent idea, but it still makes it difficult to compete with sellers who have no overhead. The second statement seems hard to prove one way or the other, but with the number of online sellers and the shrinking number of bookstores I would guess just the oppossite

JasonZavoda wrote:Which is an excellent idea, but it still makes it difficult to compete with sellers who have no overhead. The second statement seems hard to prove one way or the other, but with the number of online sellers and the shrinking number of bookstores I would guess just the oppossite

Actually, from what I have heard from friends who either are or were in the used book business, renting a storefront is one of the best ways to get stock super-cheap. People would literally come into the store and dump a whole collection of books on the counter and ask them to just take the books off their hands. I guess people feel bad about throwing books in the trash, so when grandpa dies or the kids move out and they are left with a bunch of unwanted old paperbacks, they treat used bookstores like a recycling center.