Knights & Knaves Alehouse

T. Foster wrote:All you guys who started with Holmes = old

Eh? What ya say sonny? Speak into the horn!

Odhanan wrote:

thedungeondelver wrote:Fine, ALL OF YOU GUYS started with it. I didn't.

I started playing with AD&D. Then ran the Dark Eye. THEN picked up Mentzer somewhere. So I'm an AD&D child. Not a Mentzer child.

Also started with 1E AD&D around 79-80 in 7th grade (I think it was the day after seeing Flash Gordon at the movies, so whenever that was). We eventually heard about the other "Basic" D&D editions and the D&D board game, but no one I knew by that time ever pursued them thinking they were for younger children (no way would a high school kid go backward). I did play the board game a couple years later which I found surprisingly fun (I guess my first solo-adventuring, and I remember shortly after that using the DMG to solo adventure). I didn't mess with 0E until after attempting 3E. We played a half dozen games) and I remember being surprised how different it felt (came off with a very Hobbitish feel, and a less gritty fresher world). Seemed more minimalist with a more defined magical feel (reminded me of childhood more). There are things I prefer about 0E for sure (already talked to death) but overall I still favor 1E (which to me offers just enough complexity to never bore of). Its funny though, after playing 0E it did make 1E feel a bit more power gamey, and I can see why those that started with earlier editions had a tough time with the transition to 1E.

Gene, good thing you made it out of that basement. Terrifying story, and a horrible association to have. Its a fucked up world we live in sometimes.

francisca wrote:I might be interested. But for right now, if I want to play a fantasy game with a monthly fee, I'll insert the IV and start playing WoW.

So everybody is clear a Virtual Table top program is nothing like playing WoW. The two are not equivalent. MMORPGs are computer games where a character is running around a virtual world where 99% of the content is run by computer AI. The same model used by the text based MuDs (Mult-users dungeons) back in the 80s and in fact started as graphical front ends for them. (Meridian 99).

Virtual Tabletop in contrast comes from web conferencing software namely virtual whiteboards which allow multiple users over a network to display and alter images and have everybody see the result at once.

The combination of whiteboard software and voice over internet allows a faithful replication of a tabletop roleplaying session. It not 100% and like like similar activities something are better (fog of war is great, character sheet automation) and some things are worse (namely not seeing people face to face).

Playing MMORPGs in contrast is nothing like playing a VTT sessions. Doesn't mean you will like playing RPGs with VTT software any better (many don't). Some people refuse to use web conferencing software.

Unlike MMORPGs the use of VTTs is complimentary to playing tabletop. Indeed could be used at the tabletop with a projector and laptops. For geographically separated friends it is a boon and allow them to play a true tabletop session.

robertsconley wrote:

francisca wrote:I might be interested. But for right now, if I want to play a fantasy game with a monthly fee, I'll insert the IV and start playing WoW.

So everybody is clear a Virtual Table top program is nothing like playing WoW. The two are not equivalent. MMORPGs are computer games where a character is running around a virtual world where 99% of the content is run by computer AI. The same model used by the text based MuDs (Mult-users dungeons) back in the 80s and in fact started as graphical front ends for them. (Meridian 99).

Virtual Tabletop in contrast comes from web conferencing software namely virtual whiteboards which allow multiple users over a network to display and alter images and have everybody see the result at once.

The combination of whiteboard software and voice over internet allows a faithful replication of a tabletop roleplaying session. It not 100% and like like similar activities something are better (fog of war is great, character sheet automation) and some things are worse (namely not seeing people face to face).

Playing MMORPGs in contrast is nothing like playing a VTT sessions. Doesn't mean you will like playing RPGs with VTT software any better (many don't). Some people refuse to use web conferencing software.

Unlike MMORPGs the use of VTTs is complimentary to playing tabletop. Indeed could be used at the tabletop with a projector and laptops. For geographically separated friends it is a boon and allow them to play a true tabletop session.

Yeah, I'm well aware of the differences. I've dicked around with teleconferencing solutions off and on since the early 90s, starting off with switched 56 lines and pre-standardized video conferencing platforms all the through adobe connect and all that other sort of stuff today. I've also played MMOs. I don't think the two are similar at all.

My point is I'm not interested in paying a monthly fee to play D&D.

I'm not much interested in a VTT, in any case, actually, nor MMOs, anymore.

francisca wrote: My point is I'm not interested in paying a monthly fee to play D&D.

If it gets access to a good lobby of people willing to play D&D, along with games and content like dungeon tiles, modules, and encounters it could be worth it. Otherwise stick with Fantasy Grounds or whatever. If they have a so-so implementation and try to raise the price of DDI subscription that would be a kill as well. If they leave the subscription price along and include with they have now on DDI I can see it appealing to a 4e fans but not anybody else.

robertsconley wrote:If it gets access to a good lobby of people willing to play D&D, along with games and content like dungeon tiles, modules, and encounters it could be worth it.

Judging by the preview videos, I'm not sure that'd be that awesome with the current functionalities. If you can't import your own graphics, can't basically make up your own stuff with it, and just have the choice between the blue or red Dungeon Tile (TM), I'm not interested. As for the gestion of the rules, the videos show 4e functions, marks, bloodied, powers etc etc for sure. What about AD&D? Do you have access to the same built-in functionalities? I'd be genuinely surprised if that was the case.

But really, all this is predicated on the notion that WotC can actually build a viable, efficient electronic tool to begin with. Based on their past record, I have no reason, WHATSOEVER, to believe this is the case. So I'm not holding my breath.

Now, as always, I'm willing to be surprised. Really. But I'm not seeing it happen so far.

T. Foster wrote:All you guys who started with Holmes = old

Than I must be ancient because I started with white box in the winter of 1974- 75, guess I better go take my Geritol. Now where is my cane. (turned 46 today)

Happy Birthday OGG! I'd love to hear the story behind how you were introduced to the white box. Did you have an older brother that played?

- Wheggi

oldgamergeek wrote:

T. Foster wrote:All you guys who started with Holmes = old

Than I must be ancient because I started with white box in the winter of 1974- 75, guess I better go take my Geritol. Now where is my cane. (turned 46 today)

Yeah, Happy Birthday, you old fart! I'm 46 too!


I look in the mirror each morning as I go through my morning routine (which consists of staggering to the bathroom because my joints are achy, getting my two younger girls - ages 4 and 6 - breakfast, throwing some laundry in to the washer, and getting myself ready for work) and I wonder who the hell that old fucker in the mirror is that keeps staring back at me. He ("I") looks a hell of a lot like my old man...pitiful.

tacojohn4547 wrote:I wonder who the hell that old fucker in the mirror is that keeps staring back at me. He ("I") looks a hell of a lot like my old man.

Haha, this cracked me up Jon!

There's a great quote from Terry Pratchett that IIRC our own jallison86 has or had as his sig at DF: "Inside every old person there's a young person wondering what the hell happened."

T. Foster wrote:There's a great quote from Terry Pratchett that IIRC our own jallison86 has or had as his sig at DF: "Inside every old person there's a young person wondering what the hell happened."

Indeed that is part of my sig on DF. The other part being a quote from Frank Mentzer: "I don't recall writing that, and if I did I may have been drunk." The Pratchett line just jumped off the page when I read it. The feeling of the world hurtling by while you stay the same is almost palpable sometimes. Then you wake up and realize you're closer to retirement than you are to college and you wonder how in the hell that happened!

The moral, of course, is to chill, play more games, drink more beer, and listen to more music. Life is short.

- Jeff

I like being on this board with you old dudes, makes me feel younger. Haha.

Mythmere wrote:I don't need to read it - it's Pathfinder. Although I think it's close, and that fake red-box set is going to help 4e, Pathfinder has clearly got a ton of traction at this point. Serious traction

!!!

Tholianweb wrote:Pathfinder tied WOTC for sales for the 3rd quarter. The 4th quarter will tell us more.

Really? Is there any way to confirm that, or is it just wishful thinking?

It would surprise me some, and I feel a bit bitter-sweet about it. If some other company does D&D better than than Wizards, I don't think that's good for the health of the brand. It would support, however, that there were some critical disagreements in the game's design between the comapny and the fan base. Say what you want about 3e, it's still a far more recognizable game to The original game than 4e.

It would surprise me some, and I feel a bit bitter-sweet about it. If some other company does D&D better than than Wizards, I don't think that's good for the health of the brand. It would support, however, that there were some critical disagreements in the game's design between the comapny and the fan base. Say what you want about 3e, it's still a far more recognizable game to The original game than 4e.

http://cyclopeatron.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... asbro.html

Need I say more??? I do not post my wishful thoughts for D&D.