What's up with the Zeb Cook hatred?

[JCBoney]

I don't care whether people crap on my game, but there may be people who would crap on 1e in return. What would happen here if this happened? Would all of you "grown up" guys show a thick skin? I think I know the answer, feel free to correct me.

LOL!!!

Are you kidding me?

Crapping all over AD&D 1st Edition is practically a world-wide sport!!!

So, you found maybe one of the two places* on the entire intarwebz where 1e bashing meets with full frontal assault retaliation, and you're concerned about a few snarky remarks about 2e?

Excuse me. I just pee'd my pants laughing so hard.

* Here's the other: http://www.thedelversdungeon.com/

Oh don't you know?... you're supposed to roll over and show your belly in the face of his superior intellect.

You're not supposed to stand up for what you think because, after all, you're just a player of old and outdated game systems. A dinosaur. A mental retard.... a grognard.

So get with it, Louisiana! Know your role!

[Dwayanu]

I happen to like a lot the Conan RPG that TSR put out, and IIRC Cook was the lead designer of that.

That may not weigh much in people's estimation of the man's career, but I figure it's decent to give credit where due.

[ScottyG]

I've only skimmed the thread, so if this has been covered already, my apologies.
When Gary left TSR, he asked two people to come with him, Frank Mentzer and 'Zeb' Cook.
Frank accepted, Zeb declined.
I think it's safe to say that Gary had, up until that point, a decent enough opinion of Cook.
If I had to speculate, I'd say there was a good chance that any negative feelings Gary may have developed for Zeb probably arose from him deciding to stay and work with the people Gary felt had seriously wronged him.

[Antonio Eleuteri]

I don't care whether people crap on my game, but there may be people who would crap on 1e in return. What would happen here if this happened? Would all of you "grown up" guys show a thick skin? I think I know the answer, feel free to correct me.

LOL!!!

Are you kidding me?

Crapping all over AD&D 1st Edition is practically a world-wide sport!!!

So, you found maybe one of the two places* on the entire intarwebz where 1e bashing meets with full frontal assault retaliation, and you're concerned about a few snarky remarks about 2e?

Excuse me. I just pee'd my pants laughing so hard.

* Here's the other: http://www.thedelversdungeon.com/

Oh don't you know?... you're supposed to roll over and show your belly in the face of his superior intellect.

You're not supposed to stand up for what you think because, after all, you're just a player of old and outdated game systems. A dinosaur. A mental retard.... a grognard.

So get with it, Louisiana! Know your role!

LOL you are as much a retard as I am, considering that I enjoy 1e ahahahah LOL

[Stormcrow]

I for one admit to having a thin skin, and would point out that snarking at me to grow a thicker skin would only exacerbate the problem...

[JCBoney]

LOL you are as much a retard as I am, considering that I enjoy 1e ahahahah LOL

If you play 2e, you're playing 1e with all the electrial outlets covered for your own safety.

[Nazim]

As an occasional poster of this forum, as someone with a very deep love for AD&D, but also plenty to spare for other games and editions and things, thanks for taking the time to dig all these details up, Zotster. It's been an interesting read. I do hope you stick around. But even if you don't, please bear in mind that there is a silent majority that passes through these fora. And their traffic salutes, among others, you.

[Zotster]

As an occasional poster of this forum, as someone with a very deep love for AD&D, but also plenty to spare for other games and editions and things, thanks for taking the time to dig all these details up, Zotster. It's been an interesting read. I do hope you stick around. But even if you don't, please bear in mind that there is a silent majority that passes through these fora. And their traffic salutes, among others, you.

Thanks! Always happy to entertain!

[Thoth Amon]

I happen to like a lot the Conan RPG that TSR put out, and IIRC Cook was the lead designer of that.

That may not weigh much in people's estimation of the man's career, but I figure it's decent to give credit where due.

I enjoyed the Conan RPG immensely.

[simrion]

LOL you are as much a retard as I am, considering that I enjoy 1e ahahahah LOL

If you play 2e, you're playing 1e with all the electrial outlets covered for your own safety.

We played some "safety brand" AD&D last night!

[Antonio Eleuteri]

LOL you are as much a retard as I am, considering that I enjoy 1e ahahahah LOL

If you play 2e, you're playing 1e with all the electrial outlets covered for your own safety.

We played some "safety brand" AD&D last night!

may I steal this and use it as a sig?

[Antonio Eleuteri]

I happen to like a lot the Conan RPG that TSR put out, and IIRC Cook was the lead designer of that.

That may not weigh much in people's estimation of the man's career, but I figure it's decent to give credit where due.

I enjoyed the Conan RPG immensely.

True! Excellent game, that! Also the CB1 module was quite fun, useful for a quick and dirty AD&D1e Conan game.

[simrion]

If you play 2e, you're playing 1e with all the electrial outlets covered for your own safety.

We played some "safety brand" AD&D last night!

may I steal this and use it as a sig?

Antonio, knock youself out in regards to my statement

[JCBoney]

LOL you are as much a retard as I am, considering that I enjoy 1e ahahahah LOL

If you play 2e, you're playing 1e with all the electrial outlets covered for your own safety.

We played some "safety brand" AD&D last night!

So, who played Rainbow Brite and who played Strawberry Shortcake, who got to ride My Little Pony into Waterdeep, and did the party actually convince Papa Smurf to hand over the rare scroll containing the long lost spell Elminster's Faggoty Dance along with the twin scimitars +3, +5 vs halfling mages?

Oh, technical question: did you use the original 2e books with the uninspiring, melodramatic cover art of Larry "The Corporate Whore" Elmore, or did you go with the more modern black "Player's Option" set... the ones that ultimately sank TSR like it was the Hood? And how many "Complete Book of" moneysucks were present at the table? Personally, I've seen as many as 10 at a table at a time back in those days.

Lastly, in my past experience, hardcore 2e players tend to ignore trivial and mundane things like personal hygiene since they're much too busy delving into the mysteries of another supplement book, so how many air freshener cans did the DM go through before the night was out?

Just curious.

[Dwayanu]

Oh, cut the crap.

The last D&D session in which I played was 2E, with the same fellows with whom I had been playing OD&D before, and it was just plain fun D&D.

We players had all brought 1E PHBs, but even the DM's 2E books got little reference beyond character generation. That was probably the only point at which it really mattered which edition we were (nominally) playing. (Druids got a bit "nerfed", I think; I chose a magic-user instead).

I don't know much about the supplements, the only ones I recall ever really reading having been Greyhawk Adventures, The Complete Priest's Handbook and the Tome of Magic. Good or bad, the variants seem to me unlikely to exceed the range I encountered from campaign to campaign before 2E.

Indeed, a lot of changes that went into the "core" books were familiar from previous encounters with house rules -- some of them very common. That does not make them well considered, of course!

The real bottom line I take away from that, and from my 20-years-earlier brush with 2E, is that the really key difference is between those hung up on "official rules" and those who play so fast and loose that rulebooks hardly matter.

That is moderated somewhat by the fact that we were playing 1st-level characters. As a campaign progresses, it naturally tends to need to pin down more stuff -- if only how various spells work. Still, I find myself by long experience most comfortable when "We're playing by Book X" is not the answer to every question. I'm used to a more "organic" development.