Dw: "The really pertinent question, I think, is not, "Is this socialism?" but, "Do I approve of it?" Not many folks get all bent out of shape about "socialized fire fighting" and so on."
I appreciate your candid admission that what nationalizing health care in this country is actually socialism, and that the question shouldn't be "is it" but rather "why not"...is socialism bad?
That is a fare question.
The inevitable class warfare you discuss hasn't happened in this country because many of those well to do around you came from humble beginnings. Of those in good professions that I personally know probably half came from poverty or near poverty childhoods. The wealthiest person I know came from dirt. My wifes family growing up in West Virginia had a shack for a house (all shared one room), an outhouse and no running water until she was in highschool. They are all well off, her brother is making around 300K a year making computer gambling programs for a company and installing them around the world. In America if you go to school (its free) work hard, attend college (take out low interest loans if you must) get a job after word (and pay off those lones) the loweliest person can rise to the top. Its called hard work, and getting a skill in something that is needed. Its why vocational schools for things like AC repair, electricians, plumbing, mechanics etc. etc. are so popular, because they are needed and make a relatively good living without alot of training (relative to say a Doctor, or Archetect).
"Class warfare" as you put it, is a tool to manipulate people to do things you want them to do. It breeds hate and jealousy, and relies on base emmotion rather then rational thinking to work. It was the tool of the communists all over the world, and installed dictators and harsh regimes.
You forget something very basic Dw, those of us who are capitalists and pro-free market believe that that system is the best one (of all the systems) to reduce poverty and improve social conditions. And, perhaps even more importantly, it is the system that allows the most personal freedom, the best chance of mobility from the poor class to the rich class (to the point that such classes no longer exist) and it results in people that are more self reliant (which has value...its part of self respect (nobody wants a handout).
I think alot of people who don't like the free market system don't partisipate in it. They don't give themselves the freedom to fail, and thus never are happy with where they are at. This overtime breeds contempt, "he has and I have not".
Socialism is bad Dw because it takes from those that produce (and create jobs in small businesses for the most part) and gives to the poor (rewarding them for not doing anything but supporting the system that gave to them). This creates a situation where the producer is so heavily taxed and regulated he can't make a profit and soon realizes its not worth the effort to stay in business (why if your profit is taken, yet you still have the huge risks and long work hours).
This reduces competition (as you have fewer providers of each catagory of product) which tends to drive up price witin each catagory. It also reduces choice (the company that made your favorite bread damnit went out of business, so your stuck with the kind you hate) and it removes jobs. The more people without jobs rely on the state for income, and loose self respect as they start accepting the handouts (eventually giving up on hope). Of course this also creates a block of people always willing to vote for the government giving out the handouts to stay in power, what other option does this population have? What a free market system hopes to do is allow its citizens to 1. get an education, 2. get work (and become skilled in it, thus attaining greater salary), 3. save, 4. start their own business, 5. hire people. That in a nut shell is the American Dream (though starting the business is optional).
Socialism runs down society into the dirt. So why does it keep popping its ugly head up? Because there are always people willing to exploit others to make themselves powerful and rich by exploiting class envy. Countless dictators and govt. aristocrats have done this throughout the centuries, infact this profession may pre-date prostitution (one of mankinds earliest free market professions).
