Knights & Knaves Alehouse

SemajTheSilent wrote:Interesting debate so far.

The answer is: it's simple shorthand...that's all. I wrote it as "wears chainmail and shield" because I don't believe in complicated stat blocks or explanations. Anyone reading it will understand what it means. Hopefully.

This has given me a new hobby: from now on, I'll put interesting little phrases into my works in order to see who says what. :D

Yes, it is definitely understandable, that's for sure. It just stood out to me because the Sword was isolated from Armour and Shield in the sentence. I quite agree that simple Stat Blocks are best!

...sounds like a fun new hobby.

Stormcrow wrote:It's just semantics. Bilbo Baggins wanted to "wear a sword instead of a walking-stick." Tolkien wasn't getting into the details of how Bilbo would hold either.

David
Stardate 6788.8

A good point. I had forgotten about that particular instance; as I recall, it rubbed me up the wrong way when I read it as well. An unconventional usage, but an authorative precedent.

PapersAndPaychecks wrote:Okay, you lot just forced me to get my shields out of the shed and take some photos.

Heh, heh. Nice pictures P&P. I think we might have a different idea of what strapped to one's arm means. Those arrangements can be seen depicted on Ancient Shields as well as Medieval ones, of course. The last picture, where the Shield is slung, seems the most 'worn' like to me, but I doubt I would describe it that way [That's just my opinion, mind! If you are holding it, you ain't wearing it!].

There are a number of images in the Maciejowski Bible that show thirteenth century type Knights with Shields that are arranged in front of them whilst their 'Shield Hand' holds the reigns. These Shields might be strapped to their arms beneath, but it is more likely that they are orientated by use of a shoulder strap and arm loop:

Maciejowski Bible Leaf 23
Maciejowski Bible Leaf 24

Here is a very clear picture of how the Heater Shield was 'worn' whilst on horseback. To the right of that image is a a Footman with a Kite Shield, that he is holding at Arms length, 'Roman style', whilst his companion has his slung over his back as he mines the wall / gate:

Maciejowski Bible Leaf 10

One of the best pictures in the collection, in my humble opinion...

In these cases they are obviously not holding their Shields, but I would still be disincllined to view them as being worn. Still, it is a matter of semantics, as Storm Crow has said.

Mythmere wrote:May be time to get out von Eschenbach and Chretien and see what the translations say, if I can find the right phrase...

I can't say I have ever come across the phrase in Middle English, but I think I will keep an eye out for it now.

I have endless arguments with my authenticity people about how literally we should be taking these surviving illustrations. (I'm a re-enactor.)

My argument is, if you limit your understanding of history to what's mentioned in illustrations and texts, then you're forced to believe that dark age horses were often dyed blue, gravity rarely applied and whole centuries went past when it didn't ever rain...

Sometimes, you've just got to disregard the sources and look at what makes sense. We've actually experimented with the shield strapping arrangements depicted on the Bayeux Tapestry and many of them just don't work.

Heh, heh. I'm well aware of the metaphorical, conventional and topoi laden nature of medieval illustrations and text (not to mention the simple innaccuracies), and the potential benefits of archaeological experimentation... The danger, of course, is that whe we label something unworkable having only seen it illustrated we may never figure out what is actually being represented. Whenever we use any source of any period we have always to be careful and place it in context. The Bayeux Tapestry is a problematic resource, to be sure, but most representational art is. Trajan's Column is a good example; it is one of the major resources for the Imperial Army of that period, but if we take it literally we are forced to conclude many things that run counter to what is logical or what is elsewhere presented.

It is interesting to note that niether the Bayeux Tapestry nor Trajan's Column depict their combatants with Daggers. Should we conclude that they were not used in combat during those periods? Of course not, but we have to take those representations into account. The same is true of the depictions of Shields and the various methods of Shield Strap arrangement.

Personally, I doubt very much there was a major disperity between the Shield design of Horsemen of the 1st Century AD and the 11th Century AD. The gear of the Horsemen of those two periods is very similar broadly speaking: Horse, Spear, Shield, Sword, Mail Hauberk (of varying lengths), Helmet and so on... the strapping arrangements for their Shields were probably not very dissimilar.

yeah! we all know the "war of the lance" - now we have the "war of the shield"...