Knights & Knaves Alehouse

rogatny wrote:It's pretty much the ultimate stereotypical Baby Boomer conceit - at least from the Gen Xers' perspectives - that they can get away with neglecting and lying to their children with no consequence at all so long as it was in the service of their greater good. That's pretty much the central theme to all the great music of the late 80s/early 90s from Nine Inch Nails to Nirvana to Guns n' Roses to NWA to Public Enemy and etc., etc.... "You've been lying to us, everything is all screwed up."

The conversation here between DungeonMonkey and JC Boney pretty much mirrors Ben's conversation with Luke in Return of the Jedi and is essentially the larger conversation Conway was talking about in a nutshell.

RotJ came out in 1984. The Boomers were looking about, in their late 30s, with a nice job, a couple kids and another on the way, content and pleased with themselves, saying, "We did it. We saved the world." The Last Jedi came out now with the Gen Xers in their early 40s looking about and saying, "You know you guys really did leave a lot of crap for us to clean up after you. I thought you said you fixed this shit." The Boomer just shrugs his shoulders and says, "Don't forget to pay my pension."

Wheggi wrote:That’s what all the whining is about?

I thought Luke did the exact same thing as obiwan Kenobi and Yoda. Both of them were Jedi masters who had a bad day at the office and retired to become hermits.

Seemed to me to be the most likely scenario the writers would take.

Wheggi wrote:See Bob, I thought by the way all these uber-fans were going on that the big reveal was going to be HUUUGE. You know, like Luke banged Lea back in the day before they knew they were brother/sister and she had Ren, making her Kylo's half-sister/cousin, or that Luke was actually Sith Lord Snope (which could have been a pretty awesome story twist, now that I think about it). Some weird, off the wall shit like that. As it is right now I'm still not seeing the issue with the twist in this new movie. Wasn't even a twist, just a logical progression of what may have happened in the 30 or so years between RotJ and this new movie.

But again, I don't have much emotionally invested in Star Wars, so my perspective may be different.

- Wheggi

Wheggi wrote:See Bob, I thought by the way all these uber-fans were going on that the big reveal was going to be HUUUGE. You know, like Luke banged Lea back in the day before they knew they were brother/sister and she had Ren, making her Kylo's half-sister/cousin, or that Luke was actually Sith Lord Snope (which could have been a pretty awesome story twist, now that I think about it). Some weird, off the wall shit like that. As it is right now I'm still not seeing the issue with the twist in this new movie. Wasn't even a twist, just a logical progression of what may have happened in the 30 or so years between RotJ and this new movie.

But again, I don't have much emotionally invested in Star Wars, so my perspective may be different.

T. Foster wrote:For me, the problem with the First Order replacing the Empire, Kylo Ren replacing Darth Vader, and Luke Skywalker becoming Yoda isn't so much that it undermines the hopeful spirit of the original trilogy by positing that nothing changes or ever improves as that it's just very lazy and formulaic storytelling - a reboot/reimagining of the original trilogy masquerading as a sequel. Focusing on the in-universe dynamics that led to such a situation - whether it's consistent with Luke's character to have become a disillusioned hermit, etc. - is giving it all too much credit. Any in-universe answer is just post-hoc handwaving; the real reason Luke is a hermit who's reluctant to train Rey in TLJ is because that's how Yoda was in the first trilogy, and they want to repeat those story-beats with a "modern" twist. It's such a squandered opportunity. But, hey, maybe the Han Solo movie will be good in the same way Rogue One was.