Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS

[TRP]

What makes me somewhat sad is that if the venture does not go well, blame will be well spread on this forum, the "trolls" in the KS comments section, and probably plenty of other places.

Others blaming K&KA for their own blunders? Here at the Alehouse, we call that Monday (or pick your whatever favorite day of the week)

For a place that is supposedly insignificant, folk sure do like to talk about us.

[EOTB]

Still negative $ for the day, with only a net 2 new backers. Was it a big money tier that pulled out? Must have been.

Lower end of the projection is currently at less than $100K, and falling.

is posting quotes of his insane views that are being inserted into the setting allowed, if there is no commentary on them?

I'd post F's own words/marketing for this - I think that's fair game. But I'm not a mod.

[rredmond]

Others blaming K&KA for their own blunders? Here at the Alehouse, we call that Monday

If I wasn’t out on the road at a case this would be so sig-worthy!
Nice!

[grodog]

Leaving that stuff out allows everyone to concentrate on our commonality - love for old-school games. (And awe at the unfurling of this KS.)

Unravelling?

Allan.

[francisca]

Lol sorry guys, I will refrain from any politically divisive messages such as confused doppelgangers and hairless dwarves.

But for future clarification, is posting quotes of his insane views that are being inserted into the setting allowed, if there is no commentary on them? You know, what we might refer to as the settings fluff in a normal project lol

Well, we have a no politics policy here, and it would be very easy for that particular aspect to devolve into political mudslinging and dick waving, so... I think it's clear what his views are, and I don't think there is a need to highlight it and this point in the discussion. Let's just stick to the other aspects, please, as eventually, mods will throw a lock on this if it goes down the political path.

[Falconer]

Roight.

[RandomEncounter]

I see I have been beaten to the punch, but, yes, let’s set aside this slavery/SJW aspect, please. It’s out there, it is what it is, and it would be unsavory to get up to our elbows in this muck.

I’ll throw you a bone, though, ready? Some of Frank’s original maps have been uncovered. Check it out:





Don’t fucking laugh! This is actual D&D!

Wow. That's totally worth 75 dolla'

[bobjester]

Lets hope the quality of the maps are up to par with the art we've seen so far.

[Ragnorakk]

It took me a very long time to feel like I understood what those maps are trying to represent. Honestly, I'm only about 80% sure that I do.

[Jeffery St. Clair]

Please don't tar and feather me for knowing this, but that above map is what the players are handed before they try their luck inside those caves just outside of Northending. I played that region in a Lake Geneva Game Convention back in 2005. I couldn't tell you where we entered, except that we said "Hell, no," to the vampire tunnel.

[Kalex the Omen]

I swore I was done with this thread, and I'm not going to jump back in to debate anything, but Alyssa Faden is doing the cartography. Here is a link to her Facebook page (it looks like her normal website is no longer up). She is awesome! I'm sure she can translate the lack luster player handouts into something astounding. She does some nice blue & white dungeon maps too! Check out Dark Wizard Games adventure modules for some of her work in that medium.

Link

[MageInBlack]

Please don't tar and feather me for knowing this, but that above map is what the players are handed before they try their luck inside those caves just outside of Northending. I played that region in a Lake Geneva Game Convention back in 2005.

I am pretty sure you are not going to get Mesner cooties because you played in one of his games. This thread extra-picks this KS apart for a couple of reasons. One...it is just poorly setup and executed. If this were any other KS, we would pick that apart. Two...this is extra-picked apart because it is Frank's KS and his outburst on DF really just scrapped his balls over our collective faces. I still struggle to find the "trolling" I keep hearing about, and failing. All I see is posts disagreeing with some things and his "I used to work at TSR so kneel before me" attitude summing the situations up to "trolling". I don't really hold any torch to these people and to quote Frank, "But game designers are people too, entirely human". So yup, Frank is just a person with feelings and opinions that will often conflict with others like ours do.

I think of situations with my daughter (13) where she will say things like "mom yelled at me for such and such", only for me to think back, "my wife didn't raise her voice one bit". But that wasn't the real issue. The issue is my wife told my daughter something she didn't want to hear so she was "yelling". So when you disagree with a legendary ex-TSR employee, you are basically "trolling" them.

I realize this may be a big digression from this topic, but that outburst on DF really hurt this KS to the point where people openly admit to not supporting him due to that alone. It was a bummer on Frank's part that he had a blow up just before going live with that KS. It also didn't help that Tanknerd posted about it because now it shows up on the top of the Google searches when you search for "Mentzer" and "Empyrea" so now people that don't visit DF can see what happened.

So it isn't an issue if someone likes Frank and/or likes playing in his games. That doesn't matter. Be a BECMI fan all day long. It doesn't make anyone associate Franks outburst to them personally...that is for Frank to own and own alone. I myself find these old timers' games to be quite underwhelming. I played is a couple and I didn't have the time of my life. I had way, way more fun playing in Keith's and Allan's games than I did in any gray beard's game. I am not stating that to give virtual handjobs...it is just Keith and Allan run games like I used to play. Kask's games are a confusing mess of "I am not even sure what game we are playing anymore".

So Frank can keep babbling about how many years he has been in the business and that he is not an amateur. Truth is, he is an amateur as he hasn't done anything substantial without the backing of a company like TSR. This sloppy KS seems to demonstrate that. I was never going to support it whether he was the friendliest guy in the world or not. If I still played AD&D constantly, I would have my own material and my own world. Ever since I got the Forgotten Realms box set, I decided not to use a published world ever again. But if I did, I wouldn't need to have an author empower me to put a tavern wherever in the hell I wanted...or throw Dragonlance material into it as I see fit. I would just do it. Hell, I would even maybe make a town called OSRGaming, and it is a ghost town with 1HD tumbleweeds roaming around.

[Kalex the Omen]

One of Alyssa Faden's Dungeon Maps (not blue and white though).

Link

[MageInBlack]

"Alyssa Faden"? Never heard of her. Did she make the "big names" list and I am just out of touch with the current market? Her maps are nice. Maybe she should drop the "Faden" and just go by Alyssa.

[Falconer]

I am pretty sure you are not going to get Mesner cooties because you played in one of his games. This thread extra-picks this KS apart for a couple of reasons. One...it is just poorly setup and executed. If this were any other KS, we would pick that apart. Two...this is extra-picked apart because it is Frank's KS and his outburst on DF really just scrapped his balls over our collective faces. I still struggle to find the "trolling" I keep hearing about, and failing. All I see is posts disagreeing with some things and his "I used to work at TSR so kneel before me" attitude summing the situations up to "trolling". I don't really hold any torch to these people and to quote Frank, "But game designers are people too, entirely human". So yup, Frank is just a person with feelings and opinions that will often conflict with others like ours do.

I think of situations with my daughter (13) where she will say things like "mom yelled at me for such and such", only for me to think back, "my wife didn't raise her voice one bit". But that wasn't the real issue. The issue is my wife told my daughter something she didn't want to hear so she was "yelling". So when you disagree with a legendary ex-TSR employee, you are basically "trolling" them.

I realize this may be a big digression from this topic, but that outburst on DF really hurt this KS to the point where people openly admit to not supporting him due to that alone. It was a bummer on Frank's part that he had a blow up just before going live with that KS. It also didn't help that Tanknerd posted about it because now it shows up on the top of the Google searches when you search for "Mentzer" and "Empyrea" so now people that don't visit DF can see what happened.

So it isn't an issue if someone likes Frank and/or likes playing in his games. That doesn't matter. Be a BECMI fan all day long. It doesn't make anyone associate Franks outburst to them personally...that is for Frank to own and own alone. I myself find these old timers' games to be quite underwhelming. I played is a couple and I didn't have the time of my life. I had way, way more fun playing in Keith's and Allan's games than I did in any gray beard's game. I am not stating that to give virtual handjobs...it is just Keith and Allan run games like I used to play. Kask's games are a confusing mess of "I am not even sure what game we are playing anymore".

So Frank can keep babbling about how many years he has been in the business and that he is not an amateur. Truth is, he is an amateur as he hasn't done anything substantial without the backing of a company like TSR. This sloppy KS seems to demonstrate that. I was never going to support it whether he was the friendliest guy in the world or not. If I still played AD&D constantly, I would have my own material and my own world. Ever since I got the Forgotten Realms box set, I decided not to use a published world ever again. But if I did, I wouldn't need to have an author empower me to put a tavern wherever in the hell I wanted...or throw Dragonlance material into it as I see fit. I would just do it. Hell, I would even maybe make a town called OSRGaming, and it is a ghost town with 1HD tumbleweeds roaming around.

Great post.