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Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:21 am
by Geleg
QFT. Exactly my thoughts
Melan wrote:More than that, this is the same quantitative thinking which is sinking the hobby like too much ballast. 5000 words, or 10,000 words or 20,000 words... what kind of words are they? What do they contribute to the game beyond word count (and the almighty 0.2 freelancer cents per word... if that)? Why would I pay for 10,000 bad words instead of 3000 very good ones? I believe they can type. But can they write?
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:27 am
by EOTB
Also, it's a lot easier to put out 5,000 words from your own notes - which is the scenario presented.
But have you ever tried to pull 5,000 words from someone else's notes? It's often harder than writing 5,000 words of your own.
And, the hypothetical FM at his keyboard writing all the content in 90 days notwithstanding, it's been pretty clear from the onset that the fulfillment was not going to be FM at his keyboard for 3 months banging out the pages.
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:31 am
by Jeff
Time required: In practical terms, this may involve 400,000 words (400 pages). I can write 5,000 in an afternoon if I'm working from my notes (extensive and well-organized in this case), with a straightforward typing speed of 60-100 wpm. Thus, I can write the entire set in about 90 days or less, allowing for delays. But we actually have twice as much time (180 days roughly), and 3 or more staff writers, plus 10 legendary author contributors (several thousand words each plus location maps).
-- Frank
For giggles, I did a wordcount on Frank's Immortals Players Guide. It's almost 29,000 words, but we'll call it 30K for simplicity.
So Frank is saying, that in 6 afternoons, he can spit out the entire Players' Guide to Immortals. And call it done. Even if you double it (because he says he has twice that amount of time), then that's still an entire Players' Guide in 12 days, which I assume includes art and layout.
That seems extremely ambitious, at best.
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:33 am
by EOTB
Falconer wrote:Falconer wrote:Alex, is “1E/2E” code for
- 1E, but we want 2E DMs to buy, too
- 2E, but we want 1E DMs to buy, too
- 1E and 2E stats both fully included
(in which case why not give them separate booklets)
- we haven’t figured that out yet / not sure of the difference
Considering most of the “Legendary Guest Authors” are names mainly associated with 2E, the second option would be my assumption, but, it seems a odd lumping, in any case.
This was finally answered, any my suspicion confirmed. “Focus on 2nd edition, rather than 1E.”
He liberally invokes the name of Gary at every opportunity, and then focuses on the edition about which Gary had nothing good to say.
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:33 am
by Jeff
francisca wrote:Blackadder23 wrote:I'm sure he
can write 5000 words a day, the question is whether he
will.
I'm also shocked that he doesn't realize that having so many collaborators - far from mitigating the chance of failure - actually
increases it.
Mythical Man-Month, etc...
QFT!
I constantly tell my managers that adding more people to a project doesn't make it happen faster. They disagree. I point them to this book, which was written in 1975 and has been reaffirmed to me time and time again through countless projects.
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:16 am
by Falconer
EOTB wrote:He liberally invokes the name of Gary at every opportunity, and then focuses on the edition about which Gary had nothing good to say.
Not only that, but, as we have shown, Frank Mentzer used AD&D 1e exclusively to run the vintage Aquaria/Empyrea home campaign. Not to mention it is the native system of Gary’s Greyhawk and of Frank’s own published R1-4 modules. I would say it’s lamentable that we will never see the original campaign in its original game format, except, it is rapidly becoming clear that there is no there there.
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:18 am
by Juju EyeBall
Yep, this is not for the game we play. Does it belong in new products anymore?
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:19 am
by Falconer
Just a comparison FYI:
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:25 am
by Falconer
DungeonDork wrote:Yep, this is not for the game we play. Does it belong in new products anymore?
I’ll have to think about that. S&W and Runequest, though not the focus of the Alehouse, are historically allowable here, so, it squeaks by. Also, the New Products forum was created precisely to get this sort of topic out of the way of the main traffic of the board. Some insightful “Craft of Play” issues have come to light here, but, I hesitate to consider this a proper Craft of Play thread. I may pick out some of the better posts and fork them out into their own threads.
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:43 am
by tacojohn4547
Falconer wrote:Just a comparison FYI:
Uhhh....wth???
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:45 am
by Juju EyeBall
Falconer wrote:DungeonDork wrote:Yep, this is not for the game we play. Does it belong in new products anymore?
I’ll have to think about that. S&W and Runequest, though not the focus of the Alehouse, are historically allowable here, so, it squeaks by. Also, the New Products forum was created precisely to get this sort of topic out of the way of the main traffic of the board. Some insightful “Craft of Play” issues have come to light here, but, I hesitate to consider this a proper Craft of Play thread. I may pick out some of the better posts and fork them out into their own threads.
So be it.
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:55 am
by EOTB
tacojohn4547 wrote:
Uhhh....wth???
So if you already have an inn, a ship (say, the
Sea Ghost), and the Valon map from JG...you have empyrea
months before the people who're pledging on KS
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:56 am
by Juju EyeBall
EOTB wrote:tacojohn4547 wrote:
Uhhh....wth???
So if you already have an inn, a ship (say, the
Sea Ghost), and the Valon map from JG...you have empyrea
months before the people who're pledging on KS
Just change all the monster alignments to Lawful and you're set!
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:56 am
by RandomEncounter
Falconer wrote:RandomEncounter wrote:Which by the way is apparently why the KS has JG branding.
You may have missed this, but, it’s because the map Frank used in his home campaign is actually just Wilderlands Map #5 Valon.
Aye but I suspect it's also due to this "
comment" under a Q about DCC conversion.
"My old friend Tim Beach heads up the complex Conversion sub-project. His multisystem knowledge is outstanding, and in this case JoeG is a friend and handles Judges Guild Game Company who Endorses us, so things should go well.
(psst- I hear the old City State problem is gonna get solved too. BB2 and 3 aren't just lollygagging.)"
(Emphasis mine)
Re: Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:06 pm
by RandomEncounter
EOTB wrote:tacojohn4547 wrote:
Uhhh....wth???
So if you already have an inn, a ship (say, the
Sea Ghost), and the Valon map from JG...you have empyrea
months before the people who're pledging on KS
I am still waiting to get a map or three and the book.... So they will probably be years ahead of the CSIO backers too lol