AD&D 1e Reprint Thread

[ken-do-nim]

I’m not surprised it doesn’t say Advanced on the cover. After all, it’s not Advanced in relation to 4e. It’s Classic in relation to 4e.

it's advanced if you're some simpleton mong who thinks you should get savegames (yes I've seen this - going all the way back to 3.0) or that the rust monster, green slime, grey ooze, etc. and save v. death, level drain etc. for 1e are just there to promulgate "bad" DMing.

When I ran Tomb of Horrors for our group's established characters back in high school, I gave them the save game option, but each time they went back to a saved game I cut the xp bonus in half again. They ended up only needing it once.

[foxroe]

If those are the covers... I'll absolutely get these books.*

I'm not expecting the same covers with different trade dress, but a well done homage to the originals would be perfect.

*(Who am I kidding... I'm getting these just so I don't have a cat-barf stained, Crayola-colored, previously-owned-by "LicheMaster69" copy of the game.)

[Black Vulmea]

Those are pretty cool lookin'.

[AxeMental]

So these are the covers then?

I'd prefer they show more of the orignals of course. But at least they've got that much showing.

[Nerelas]

These covers bug me. The beauty of the original Tramp (PHB) and Sutherland (DMG) covers is that they both tell a story (adventurers looting the temple/lair of the lizard men, and TPK against the backdrop of the City of Brass , respectively). These new ones don't tell a story, they take a random line from a paragraph in the story and give it to you without context. Obviously, they couldn't have done any worse with the MM cover than the original .

[AxeMental]

These covers bug me. The beauty of the original Tramp (PHB) and Sutherland (DMG) covers is that they both tell a story (adventurers looting the temple/lair of the lizard men, and TPK against the backdrop of the City of Brass , respectively). These new ones don't tell a story, they take a random line from a paragraph in the story and give it to you without context. Obviously, they couldn't have done any worse with the MM cover than the original .

I agree. I was picturing something far far far far worse though. But I agree with everything you say. Actually there isn't a single WOTC artist capable of doing anything as normal, classic, moody as these covers (skilled yes, capable no). Today's RPG art is all about bigger, kewler, and "look what a great artist I am". It does a diss-service to the sport of RPG gaming (and that goes for computer and online games as well).

[Matthew]

Not that bothered about the covers, would have preferred plain covers (thus BBB or "Big Brown Books") and "advanced" to be retained (since it may mean they have plans to use "advanced" elsewhere and I would hate to see the waters further muddied as to what constitutes AD&D), but whatever.

I would expect something akin to the PHB2 of 3rd ed, that is, a sturdy carton cover with a glossy finish, rather than "leatherette". That's what these covers look like to me. And I honestly would be floored if the binding was crap. WotC's products are very high quality in that regard (I got a near complete 3rd ed WotC books collection holding very well with the passage of time to prove it, actually).

Reports are often variable on this front. Some people have had great experiences with WotC books and others complain about significant premature wear and tear, my D20/3E PHB is okay, but barely used and the binding is definitely not as good as my AD&D PHB.

[Benoist]

Weird! I used my books, and I mean a lot during the 6 or so years I played and ran the game regularly, and none of the books have shown any sign of weakness yet.

[AxeMental]

These covers bug me. The beauty of the original Tramp (PHB) and Sutherland (DMG) covers is that they both tell a story (adventurers looting the temple/lair of the lizard men, and TPK against the backdrop of the City of Brass , respectively). These new ones don't tell a story, they take a random line from a paragraph in the story and give it to you without context. Obviously, they couldn't have done any worse with the MM cover than the original .

OK upon mulling this over, I'm getting a bad feeling about all of this ( suspect Nerelas is too). I think this rerelease is being used to help end the OSR. WOTC thinking: 1. Divide and concure. Suddenly a good portion of the OSR are thinking WOTC and focusing on them rather then those that really have the best interest of 1E at heart (OSRIC and its publishers). Give them candy to lead them away from the OSR and toward WOTC, where we bait them with more 5E candy. 2. proof the sales of 1E suck and that there is no market "we tried it your way now shut the fuck up and move on". (they use lame commercial dress and give a historical tribute feel to the original covers, removing, as Nerelas suggests, the "magic" from the covers, plus not pushing this for new players at all. I'd rather have seen new artwork and a serious attempt at getting the 1E game to spark. But thats not their intention. 3. An attempt to get us to be all warm and fuzzy when 5E does come out: "We gave in and rereleased 1E, so please don't take a dump on 5E when it comes out and looks more like 3E then anything else. We don't want any negative press".

The thing that really bothers me is that I know 1E is a better game (as a general public game) because its easier and faster to play (Monoploy vs. Allies and Axis) the 1E market never left TSR, TSR left the market. But its not going to ever get a fair shake from WOTC, not because 1E is a looser and wouldn't sell books and become profitable. But because WOTC's design team and its current management are premadanas wanting to put their stamp on D&D. It boils down to an ownership of ideas and who is "Great". CHange and "improvement" justifies their pay and existance (this often happens when the owner of IP is not the creator, and trusts blindly (HASBRO managment probably has no idea what an FRPG is, and think WOTC team are wonderful). WOTC see 1E as a stepping stone to better things they will develop (ie. what they come up with) rather then the end all be all of FPRGs (the way Chess has hit its ideal form). And why should we expect any different when they have taste polar opposite of those who liked 1E? To them 3E is the best version of D&D. How can we expect guys that came up with the idiotic stupidity of 3E and 4E to ever design something cool (or be able to acknowledge it)? They seriously don't "get" 1E, and never will.

So I for one won't be buying the new books, I don't see the point in doing something nice for WOTC when they aren't really trying to do something nice for 1E (and may be trying to manipulate us with it). Not unless I get some sort of vibe that these guys are seriously trying to relaunch 1E in some form. I'd prefer to ignore WOTC for now on. Focus on the rebirth of 1E as a viable game, and let them prove us wrong. If any of you get sucked into the NDA "lets all build this game together" crap, let us know how it works out in the end. Expect to be disappointed as the game suddenly takes a lurch toward 3E. Hate to be a rainy sort of chap...but thats the vibe I'm getting.

[Chainsaw]

I dunno, I think they're just trying to capitalize on old school interest to make a few bucks in between 4E and 5E. If it creates some goodwill going into 5E, then that would be a bonus for them. I'm probably being naive though..

[PatW]

I take it all at face value.

a. The 1e short-term re-release is just a goodwill gesture, because despite not 100% getting it's appeal, some guy at WotC has fond memories of it and wants to help the Gygax Memorial

b. The OSR is not in any danger, because we're a bunch of middle-aged men who don't buy new product anyway and just shake our fists angrily

c. Whatever attention the OSR gets from WotC is because we're doing interesting things, not because of any market share we represent

I absolutely 100% don't buy any conspiracy theories.

[AxeMental]

I dunno, I think they're just trying to capitalize on old school interest to make a few bucks in between 4E and 5E. If it creates some goodwill going into 5E, then that would be a bonus for them. I'm probably being naive though..

Are things really that bad at HASBRO that they have to litterally make a few bucks to stay in business? Good will = don't shit on 5E when it comes out. Screw that bro.

[francisca]

These covers bug me. The beauty of the original Tramp (PHB) and Sutherland (DMG) covers is that they both tell a story (adventurers looting the temple/lair of the lizard men, and TPK against the backdrop of the City of Brass , respectively). These new ones don't tell a story, they take a random line from a paragraph in the story and give it to you without context. Obviously, they couldn't have done any worse with the MM cover than the original .

OK upon mulling this over, I'm getting a bad feeling about all of this ( suspect Nerelas is too). I think this rerelease is being used to help end the OSR. WOTC thinking: 1. Divide and concure. Suddenly a good portion of the OSR are thinking WOTC and focusing on them rather then those that really have the best interest of 1E at heart (OSRIC and its publishers). Give them candy to lead them away from the OSR and toward WOTC, where we bait them with more 5E candy. 2. proof the sales of 1E suck and that there is no market "we tried it your way now shut the fuck up and move on". (they use lame commercial dress and give a historical tribute feel to the original covers, removing, as Nerelas suggests, the "magic" from the covers, plus not pushing this for new players at all. I'd rather have seen new artwork and a serious attempt at getting the 1E game to spark. But thats not their intention. 3. An attempt to get us to be all warm and fuzzy when 5E does come out: "We gave in and rereleased 1E, so please don't take a dump on 5E when it comes out and looks more like 3E then anything else. We don't want any negative press".

The thing that really bothers me is that I know 1E is a better game (as a general public game) because its easier and faster to play (Monoploy vs. Allies and Axis) the 1E market never left TSR, TSR left the market. But its not going to ever get a fair shake from WOTC, not because 1E is a looser and wouldn't sell books and become profitable. But because WOTC's design team and its current management are premadanas wanting to put their stamp on D&D. It boils down to an ownership of ideas and who is "Great". CHange and "improvement" justifies their pay and existance (this often happens when the owner of IP is not the creator of it, or even understands the market). They still see 1E as a stepping stone to better things (ie. what they come up with) rather then the end all be all of FPRGs (the way Chess has hit its ideal form). And why should we expect any different when they have taste polar opposite of those who liked 1E? How can we expect guys that came up with the idiotic stupidity of 3E to ever design something cool (or be able to acknowledge it)? They seriously don't "get" 1E, and never will.

So I for one won't be buying the new books, I don't see the point in doing something nice for WOTC when they aren't really trying to do something nice for 1E (and may be trying to manipulate us with it). Not unless I get some sort of vibe that these guys are seriously trying to relaunch 1E in some form. I'd prefer to ignore WOTC for now on. Focus on the rebirth of 1E as a viable game, and let them prove us wrong. If any of you get sucked into the NDA "lets all build this game together" crap, let us know how it works out in the end. Expect to be disappointed as the game suddenly takes a lurch toward 3E. Hate to be a rainy sort of chap...but thats the vibe I'm getting.

[WSmith]

I take it all at face value.

a. The 1e short-term re-release is just a goodwill gesture, because despite not 100% getting it's appeal, some guy at WotC has fond memories of it and wants to help the Gygax Memorial

b. The OSR is not in any danger, because we're a bunch of middle-aged men who don't buy new product anyway and just shake our fists angrily

c. Whatever attention the OSR gets from WotC is because we're doing interesting things, not because of any market share we represent

I absolutely 100% don't buy any conspiracy theories.

I am with you. This makes the most sense to me.

[AxeMental]

Damn, I'm a good looking guy.

Its not a conspiracy theory fellas, its business...you know, that thing people do all day to make money. You guys are saying its "good will" buidling yourself. So why do they want to build good will? To sell 5E, to get ownership of it so we don't nuke it (hence the NDA group think)? My point is, do you really want to be part of that?

And sorry, there is no one at WOTC that gives a rats ass about 1E. Not enough to split the market (as they used to say) or to give the go ahead to publish 1000s of books. This is calculated. That should be obvious.

Pat: b. The OSR is not in any danger, because we're a bunch of middle-aged men who don't buy new product anyway and just shake our fists angrily

Thats not the end goal of the OSR. The end goal is to sell 1E products to new players, and to see the game survive into the distant future. At least for some of us. I really don't give a flying fuck about the fossile fat beards who think the game is "theirs" and want to go dig a whole in a park and climb into it. They should take showers, trim their beards, join a gym and get back to life. Lets bring 1E/OSRIC/S&W/LL back to kids in book stores. Fuck these fucking fucks that want to fuck us. Am I the only person who remembers 1E books on the shelves of real book stores? Is it too much to ask to attempt to have that as our goal as a community. Jesus Mary and Joseph!