Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

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AxeMental
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Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by AxeMental »

From the LL thread, Foster wrote this:

Because that's how the game was played by millions of people back in the 80s, and I don't buy any revisionist (and invariably self-serving) argument that all those millions of people "weren't really playing AD&D." Because the fact is, they were playing AD&D -- those were the books at the table and if you'd asked any of them them that's what they would have told you. And, specifically, they were not playing B/X, which most of them owned and had played, but had deliberately chosen not to play anymore because they preferred AD&D for its flavor, its style, its greater amount of "stuff" (classes, spells, equipment, monsters, magic items), and for the greater amount and quality of resources available for it (adventures, supplements, new content in Dragon magazine), and they didn't let the fact that it had a lot of extra rules they didn't use or even necessarily understand get in the way of their enjoyment. Because "the rules" is never what AD&D was about -- the style and the flavor and the "stuff" is. Hell, I never even bothered to read cover-to-cover through the AD&D rulebooks until c. 2002, and I was a hardcore super-geek fan.

I too have always gotten a very weird vibe from the B/X online-supporters when it comes to 1E AD&D and Gygax in general (like a short guy complex, there is a tendency to almost need to prove themselves). The vibe seems to be a distinctively negative one toward 1E, with subtle insinuations of B/X being better (cheerleaders fighting a one sided war, I've seen no 1Eers give a negative vibe toward B/X that I can remember). B/Xers post about how 1E is good but "its too complex", "its unclear", its too specific etc. thats fine, but why tell me at my 1E site...its a different game. Surely these same B/X guys remember how people liked the complexity of 1E back in the 80s (back then it was a badge of honor to master the DMG, it meant you were smarter then everyone else, and definitely better then the guys playing "kiddie D&D). Infact, 1E's complexity added to the patina of the hobby, and made the rule books seem like tombs themselves, never boring and uniquely Gygaxian...you could get insite into the feel and spirit of the game every time you delved into it.

So anyway, I can buy Foster's points listed above (I know I still complain about late 1E, which I see starting with UA), but I suspect there is more to this B/X vs 1E thing then that (after all the 80s was a long time ago). Was there some animosity between the creators that continued to a later date maybe? Was the differences in rules so great that B/X surrogates felt a need to let that be known at 1E sites? I find the whole thing kind of odd and annoying (mostly because I feel 1E continues to be the one being the pinata). Its like a turf war below the surface no one wants to talk about, and I suspect it has something to do with the retro-clones, each games more vocal advocators trying to jockey their horse to front runner position. I suppose I'm annoyed because of the revisionary tendency of some of the message getting out about 1E and what people thought of it (eluded to above in Fosters post) when I was there at the time (as were most of you) and know the truth about what people thought of the three core 1E books and the game in general. Anyhow, I'm curious to know what others think. :wink:
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by T. Foster »

This thread is almost certainly a bad idea (and I say that in full recognition of the irony that's it's spinning off a post of mine). FWIW I think that yes there is a large degree of resentment against AD&D by fans of the Classic (and particularly the 1981 B/X) editions. I could speculate as to some reasons why I think that is (and already did some in that other thread) but I don't think there's anything constructive that will come out of it. Maybe someone should start this thread over at DF? :twisted:
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by Benoist »

I am not, personally, a B/X supporter hating on AD&D First Ed. Just to make that clear, because there seems to be some confusion going on, I'm putting that out here point blank to avoid needless bullshit. ;)
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by francisca »

I'm a big fan of B/X. I love AD&D, and right now, it is the game of choice for me.

That may change in a few years.

<shrug>

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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by Coleston the Cavalier »

T. Foster wrote:This thread is almost certainly a bad idea...
I agree. This is the "rough-and-tough," Gygaxian AD&D forum. There are more appropriate places to ask B/X folks questions.

Plus, I'm 5'3."
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by Benoist »

Coleston the Cavalier wrote:Plus, I'm 5'3."
I'm 5 feet tall myself. SHORTER than the Brave Halfling! Yes! :D
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by Coleston the Cavalier »

Odhanan wrote:
Coleston the Cavalier wrote:Plus, I'm 5'3."
I'm 5 feet tall myself. SHORTER than the Brave Halfling! Yes! :D
:o
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by Daniel Proctor »

AxeMental wrote: Its like a turf war below the surface no one wants to talk about, and I suspect it has something to do with the retro-clones, each games more vocal advocators trying to jockey their horse to front runner position.
Can you mention anything specific?
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by Steve »

I think AxeMental needs a hug.

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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by AxeMental »

Odhanan wrote:I am not, personally, a B/X supporter hating on AD&D First Ed. Just to make that clear, because there seems to be some confusion going on, I'm putting that out here point blank to avoid needless bullshit. ;)
I'm not thinking anyone here, more DF and ENworld. And not so much "hate" more a dislike or some animosity. I mean, you can't say the rules are that much different (espl. how most people tend to play 1E which is winging alot of the stuff covered by the more difficult to understand rules)...so it has to be the mojo of Gygax or something. Sorry for stirring the pot Foster, but I've been curious about this for years, and with the recent activity it peaked my interest. If the mods want to nuke this have at it. :wink:
Last edited by AxeMental on Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by AxeMental »

Steve wrote:I think AxeMental needs a hug.
Better be hot :D

Hey, I'm not that tall myself, and I've seen guys taller then me with the short guy complex. So, don't take it personally. :wink:
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Back in the days when a leopard could grab and break your Australopithecus (gracile or robust) nek and drag you into the tree as a snack, mankind has never had a break"
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by Wheggi »

I thought we were not talking about all this old school comparison bullshit anymore. I give a fuck less about Moldvay or Mentzer D&D or its supporters, and if I wanted to talk about how they are compare with AD&D I'd go to Dragonsfoot: the "Home of B/X and 2E". But this is K&KA, and if it isn't AD&D (or to a lesser extent Holmes, OD&D, Traveller or a selection of chit & hex games) it don't mesh.

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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by AxeMental »

Agreed W, just curious to know who or what stuck a Xorn claw up their collective ass :mrgreen: (thought maybe I was missing something that pissed them off) present company excluded of course.
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
Thomas Jefferson in letter to Madison

Back in the days when a leopard could grab and break your Australopithecus (gracile or robust) nek and drag you into the tree as a snack, mankind has never had a break"
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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by ThirstyStirge »

I've personally never detected any AD&D hate from B/xers. I'm shocked :shock: to hear that they harbour such vehement sentiments. I love AD&D and Basic, and have nothing against OD&D (but have yet to play it). It's all good. :D My philosophy is that we're all one big, dice-rolling family.

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Re: Do B/Xers have a beef with 1E?

Post by JCBoney »

Wait. Xorns have claws???

:shock:
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