AC DEX bonus while using a missile weapon

[Marriat the Ranger]

Do they retain their DEX bonus to AC when using a missile weapon?

Thanks.

[T. Foster]

There's nothing to say you lose it (as there is with spellcasting), so I would assume you retain it.

[Matthew]

Also, given that there is even a bonus to initiative from dexterity that only applies when using missile weapons it seems unlikely that other benefits from the same source would be lost.

[AxeMental]

There's nothing to say you lose it (as there is with spellcasting), so I would assume you retain it.

Even that is questionable in some cases. I know Gygax stated he gave MUs their dex bonus the entire time. And its likely the spell caster only looses his dex bonus when he's casting the spell (not before or after it). So if he starts on segment 2 and finishes segment 4, he still has his dex bonus segment 1 and segments 5 and 6.

Axe jumps behind bar as TRP throws his tankard at his head.

[rogatny]

Remember you lose your Dex bonuses to surprise and initiative when encumbered with any thing more than elfin chain, leather armor and a small shield (and possibly magic armor). You don't lose your dex bonuses to AC due to armor, however.

[Marriat the Ranger]

Remember you lose your Dex bonuses to surprise and initiative when encumbered with any thing more than elfin chain, leather armor and a small shield (and possibly magic armor). You don't lose your dex bonuses to AC due to armor, however.

Oh really? I forgot this little tidbit.

[Flambeaux]

Remember you lose your Dex bonuses to surprise and initiative when encumbered with any thing more than elfin chain, leather armor and a small shield (and possibly magic armor). You don't lose your dex bonuses to AC due to armor, however.

You do?

[Matthew]

You do?

Probably. The rule is not one-hundred percent clear, but that is the best reading of PHB, pp. 101-2:

Encumbrance
1) normal gear - about 35# and no great bulk
2) heavy gear - armour and/or equipment of about 70# or fairly bulky
3) very heavy gear - armour and/or equipment of 105# and bulky (such as plate armour)
4) encumbered - armour and/or equipment over 105# weight and/or (very) bulky

Movement
1) 12" - subject can run quickly
2) 9" -subject can make a lumbering run
3) 6" -subject can trot for short distances
4) 3" to 4" - no trotting possible

Reaction and Initiative
1) normal or better
2) normal, no bonuses
3) slowed
4) slowed greatly

A literal interpretation would mean that heavy armour (plated mail, field plate, full plate) can slow reactions and initiative, possibly increasing the number of surprise segments.

[Flambeaux]

OT: this is an example of what I was referring to in another thread as "fiddly bits".

[Marriat the Ranger]

Hmmm .. I could see at some point losing any initiative/Dex modifier ... but adding to your surprised segments? Nah.

[Matthew]

Presumably that is what happens with dexterity scores of 5, 4, and 3. An alternative would be to treat "slowed" and "greatly slowed" as per the spell and cumulative effects thereof, but the DMG tells us that characters encumbered and slowed are hit with +2 and +4 bonuses, respectively, which correspond to effective dexterity scores of 5 and 3, so you could certainly make that link.

[Marriat the Ranger]

Hmmm ... good point.

[Nagora]

OT: this is an example of what I was referring to in another thread as "fiddly bits".

The encumbrance rules are incomplete, as mentioned in the thread there is no clear definition of the effects of "slowed" and "greatly slowed" but encumbrance as a whole is a concept most players are familiar with.

Enforcing the "no bonus" rule for fairly bulky and bulky armours certainly makes a big difference to how players view the options for fighters.

[sepulchre]

Nagora wrote:

there is no clear definition of the effects of "slowed" and "greatly slowed"

There is not a mechanical consequence to 'slowed' but there is to 'slowed greatly', that is +2 to be hit. I assume 'slowed' denotes something merely nominal, much like 'encumbered', which is often loosely used to refer to ' 9", normal, no bonuses', while btb 'encumbered denotes '3"to 4", slowed greatly'.

Enforcing the "no bonus" rule for fairly bulky and bulky armours certainly makes a big difference to how players view the options for fighters.

Most definitely, especially true with the armor donned by rangers and how they are played as a consequence.

[Stik]

Having actually seen people shooting arrows during a melee (in SCA battles) I would have to say that the dex bonus would apply if shooting at range, since the archer can choose his moment to shoot and spend the rest of the time dodging/taking cover/whatever.
But in a situation where the enemy is within melee range, it's pretty much all an archer can do to keep from getting hit, having no weapon or shield to protect himself with. If he chooses to stand and shoot under such conditions, I would say the dex bonus to AC goes right out the window.