Major v. Minor Demons

[austinjimm]

Page 181 of the DMG (on the ASTRAL & ETHEREAL ENCOUNTER TABLES) has encounter entries for "Demon, minor" and "Demon, Major" (Same thing appears on the Psionic Encounter table on p. 182). Is there any place that delineates minor versus major demon types. The only possibly related reference I can find is in the MM, which describes the Quasit as a "minor demon form."

So which demons are minor, and which are major?

(I'm curious, as this relates to another topic I posted last night: http://knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/view ... f=8&t=7410)

--Jimm

[Matthew]

The "rule of thumb" in the DMG appears to be "any creature with armour class of −5 or better, 11 or more hit dice, or 66% or greater magic resistance" is a not a minor demon or lesser devil.

[T. Foster]

FWIW the new demon-types in MM2 are categorized as minor or major, and seem to be using the same criteria (i.e. all of those listed as minor have less than 11 HD, AC worse than -5, and less than 66% magic resistance). So in the MM1 Types I-III are minor, Types IV-VI and Succubi are major.

[rogatny]

Here's a related question...

What, if any, of the powers listed in the general intro to demons and devils are given to the sub-types, specifically the Manes (sub-demon) and Lemure? From reading the MM entries, I would assume that they do not. However, I've never heard any official ruling on the issue.

[austinjimm]

FWIW the new demon-types in MM2 are categorized as minor or major, and seem to be using the same criteria (i.e. all of those listed as minor have less than 11 HD, AC worse than -5, and less than 66% magic resistance). So in the MM1 Types I-III are minor, Types IV-VI and Succubi are major.

Why are succubi "major?" They seem to fit the criteria for "minor."

[Matthew]

Why are succubi "major?" They seem to fit the criteria for "minor."

Magic resistance above 66%, but it is touch and go for them really; the deciding factor for me is the ability to gate in Type IV demons.

[jallison86]

Why are succubi "major?" They seem to fit the criteria for "minor."

Magic resistance above 66%, but it is touch and go for them really; the deciding factor for me is the ability to gate in Type IV demons.

Succubi are interesting in that they feel more like devils than demons to me. In a standup melee they're going to get crushed (6 HD, AC of 0, and damage per attack of 1-3/1-3). Their danger lies in their shape change, charm, and suggestion abilities, and that level-draining kiss. All of which come to the fore in a role-playing situation but not in a hack-n-slash game. Again, much like devils.

- Jeff

[crub90706]

Here's a related question...

What, if any, of the powers listed in the general intro to demons and devils are given to the sub-types, specifically the Manes (sub-demon) and Lemure? From reading the MM entries, I would assume that they do not. However, I've never heard any official ruling on the issue.

I never played Manes with any of the given powers as other demons, though I did give them infravision. As far as the listed attack forms against demons, I always used them as is for Manes too. Just because a Manes is weak, it should still follow the same basic rules of demons IMO.