Duelling Charm Person Spells

[Stik]

What happens when someone is under the influence of a Charm Person spell and a second Charm Person is cast on them by another caster?
And what if the directives mandated by the two casters are contradictory?

For example, a young guardsman is visiting a circus side show, and is hit with a Charm Person spell by a wizard who tells him something to the effect of: "You really should give up this dangerous job and join our circus. We are in need of a strong man, and you can do the job." So he quits his job and runs off with the circus when the leave town the next day.

In the next town he runs into a cousin of his who is an adventuring wizard. The wizard realises that the former guardsman has been charmed. Unable to cast Dispel Magic the wizard casts Charm Person on him and tells him, "Go back home and see if you can get your guard job back."

What now?
Does the second spell fail?
Does the second spell fail but still negate the first one?
Does the second spell negate the first one and take effect?
Does the second spell force a new saving throw to see if the first one wears off?
Do both spells take effect, leaving the recipient to try to find a way to reconcile the suggestions from both casters?

Suggestions?

[T. Foster]

The correct answer is, of course, that the rules don't cover it so make up whatever feels reasonable and appropriate to you (but remember your ruling so you can be consistent if it comes up again later). My instinct would tend to be either that the most recently cast Charm Person spell takes precedence, or that the spell cast by the higher-level mage takes precedence. I'm not sure whether I'd have the other spell negated or remain in effect unless the directives are in conflict...

[Stik]

I'm comfortable with making a ruling on things the rules don't cover, but I was hoping for some input from others because I am not sure which way I want to go on this one.

T.Foster - Thanks for bringing up the level of the two casters - that's something I hadn't considered.

I'm leaning toward having both spells in effect at the same time, and if/when the directives come into minor conflict, the recipient would seek a middle ground. In situations where they are mutually exclusive, I think it would force a new save for both spells.

[rogatny]

Remember that Charm Person is not a mind control spell:

The creature then will regard the druid who cast the spell as a trusted friend and ally to be heeded and protected. The spell does not enable the druid to control the charmed creature as if it were an automaton, but any word or action of the druid will be viewed in its most favorable way. (The M-U's Charm Person spell entry refers back to the Druid spell - see also the DMG, pg. 43.)

One can quite easily have two trusted allies that you heed and protect. So, you've got one of the guard's buddies saying, "Come work with me at the circus," and another of the guard's buddies saying, "You know, you should really go back to your old guard post."

The guard could choose either option and still be charmed by both spell casters.

As DM, if I know something about the guard's character, background, or alignment, I might just simply choose what I think the guard would decide to do. I might simply roll randomly. I might choose the spell caster with the higher charisma or alignment closest to that of the guard. I might chose the spell caster of the highest level.

Regardless of what I decide the guard's decision is, I think I'd have him talk to each of his "buddies" about the decision such that both spell casters would have a good idea that there's another spell caster slinging charm spells about.

I think this is one of those groovy little gaps in the rules in which the DM can choose what he thinks is most fun for all involved.

[Piper]

I would handle it as suggested above and expand upon that ruling as follows.

If the twice charmed individual received conflicting orders, I would allow him to make a saving throw versus both charms, due to the mental stress of having to disappoint one of his most trusted allies. Each time it happened I would grant a bonus, increasing the bonus with each repetition.

[kent]

An interesting question. I think it makes sense to rule out effects that debase a spell because that spell would not have survived in that form in the sense that the spell lists in D&D are static, classical or evolved. For that reason I would say the second spell would not supplant the original unless there were drastic differences in caster competence. I really like the roleplaying challenge of simultaneous effect potentially conflicting and I think players would get a kick out of it.

[AxeMental]

The correct answer is, of course, that the rules don't cover it so make up whatever feels reasonable and appropriate to you (but remember your ruling so you can be consistent if it comes up again later). My instinct would tend to be either that the most recently cast Charm Person spell takes precedence, or that the spell cast by the higher-level mage takes precedence. I'm not sure whether I'd have the other spell negated or remain in effect unless the directives are in conflict...

I'd go with the last charm person being the one that sticks (effectively breaking the earlier) this seems to fit the games design better (think about turning for instance). Getting into higher vs. lower level seems to modernish or 3E ish or something. If I was going to use that method I'd have to come up with something like dispel magic (where the lower level guy still has a chance). But thats a headache. I wouldn't have a dual of saves as others have suggested, in the case of conflicting orders. If you do that then what would you do in the case of a real friend also chiming in. In practical terms its "who does the charmed person trust most". There can be only one.

I'm really more interested in how you'd handle charming effect in the case of monsters (say a harpie) vs. a friendly MU attempting to help the pore bastards out (ie. stopping the effrected charmed party member from becoming the next snack). I suppose you could just allow another save vs. the harpie's charm (in the case of the MU ordering the charmed to flee and the harpie ordering him to stay).

[TRP]

I'll stick with everyone who charms you is your friend.

[Ska]

I would have the most recent charm take precedence.
I think one can look at the dueling turn of undead by opposing clerics for some direction. Like a turn of the undead, the charm battle may go back and forth. The last one casting and a failure to save will have the last charm.