On a side note regarding removal of OD&D pdfs

Mythmere · Post by **Mythmere** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:30 pm

No you're not. Trent specifically said he didn't have all the words memorized.

DuBeers · Post by **DuBeers** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:05 pm

Or you can e-mail WotC:

corporateinfo@wizards.com

thedungeondelver · Post by **thedungeondelver** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:13 pm

Anyone who needs assistance getting OOP books, please drop me a PM.

Malcadon · Post by **Malcadon** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:00 am

I have been on vacation since the 5th, and I had no internet connection. I just got back home and logged in to find that things got to [horse] shit in Durante Alighieri's hellish Circle of Eternal Rotary Fans! The Grandfather of Roleplaying has passed on (at least he had a good, full life, with the love & support of friends, family & fans), I find nearly all of the old-school files on Scribd had uped and vanish without noticed, and I have a dread feeling that there is another unpleasant surprised just waiting around the corner! 9_9

I can understand why they would go after v.3.6.2 & 4e stuff (I would not deny that I download newer RPG books to see if the content is worth it, do to the fact that most game stores are closed, but I find net books to be unplayable at the table), but Wizbros no longer support the old system, they belittle the rules/art/gaming-style we love, and expect us to shell out $9 (later lowered to $5) a piece for the honor of having a digital copies of the books/models/magazines we so enjoy! I dont really hate 4e as mush as it more annoys me with this-and-that, but I know there is a lot of people who enjoy it - its just not my cup of tea! We got our old books & retro-clones, 3.Xers got their (not so) old books & Pathfinder, and WotC got their shinny new 4e game - WotC should ether support us indirectly (like making the old stuff available for free, if only as a history lesson to the younger 4e fans), or just ignore us and leave us the hell alone!!!

Arr, me hearties - I be needin' to find new harbor to be a lootin', an' a rapin', an' a plunderin'! Yo-ho-ho!!

francisca · Post by **francisca** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:27 pm

It has been announced that there will be a 24 hour period (10AM EST April 15 to 10AM EST April 16) to download any files you have previously purchased.

WereSteve · Post by **WereSteve** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:07 pm

Tis truly a shame that the USS Missouri is no longer mothballed in Bremerton; otherwise, me thinks a little artillery practice would be in order all things considered. That is, of course, provided that this move does not already amount to WotC shooting themselves collectively in the foot so to speak. Tho' when it comes to my RPG dollars, I am still hopeful that the promised Lulu version of OSRIC will become available soon as I have a hardback in the crosshairs.

Keolander · Post by **Keolander** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:33 am

Put me in the crowd with 'Why the hell would they do this?' Perhaps they will offer them again, just not through Paizo (since the Big P is now a serious competitor for their dollars)? If not, it seems incredibly short-sighted and stupid to cut off the old school crowd which is a fraction of their 4e bottom line. This smells of Hasbro's meddling in my opinion more than the folks necessarily at WotC. The Big H has WotC on a short leash at times (the whole GSL debacle last year illustrated that) and it could be a case of Hasbro simply 'showing them who's boss!'

I doubt they will come after the Retro-Clone movement. But I'll be damned if I'll be silent if they do. The OGL cannot be revoked willy-nilly and for damned sure Hasbro doesn't have precedent caselaw on their side if they decide to try and squash the Retro-Market legally.

TRP · Post by **TRP** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:39 pm

An interview with WotC prez, Greg Leeds

http://www.enworld.org/forum/news/25413 ... leeds.html

I have no idea what to make of his answer to question #3:

3. The decision to revoke PDFs means that Wizards no longer provides any method to acquire out-of-print books such as material from older editions. Is there any plan to resume allowing customers access to copies of these works through Wizards, or will legitimate customers have to go through out-of-print channels to acquire these products? If the latter is true, why would Wizards choose to avoid providing this access?

We do not have any plans to resume the sale of PDFs, but are actively exploring other options for the digital distribution of our content – including older editions. We understand that digital content is important to our customers.

Then there's the clarification to question #2. It's at the bottom of the page in small print:

The 10:1 ratio that Greg references is for PDFs only – it has nothing to do with the physical books. For every one PDF purchased legally, there were at least 10 downloaded illegally. And yes, we can track it.

Everybody who believes that WotC can track all of the "illegal" PDFs out there, please raise your hand.

Mythmere · Post by **Mythmere** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:27 pm

Yeah, that bit about "yes, we can track it" is a really good indication about how stupid they think the people they're talking to are. It calls everything else they said into question, too, if they're willing to lie that brazenly about something that's so incredibly, obviously, untrue.

Keolander · Post by **Keolander** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:17 pm

Wouldnt matter if they could track it or not. Its not illegal to download, only upload.

JCBoney · Post by **JCBoney** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:51 pm

Unless there are digital watermarks on every copy they sell, then they cannot rationally track pirated PDFs from where I'm standing.

thedungeondelver · Post by **thedungeondelver** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:14 pm

The only way they could (potentially) "track" it, short of subpoenas for every ISP on the planet (no...literally, every ISP, every backbone provider...EVERYBODY), would be to hit every torrent site, look for every D&D book being torrented, then add up the seeders and leechers.

Even then they'd only get a gross approximation of "something".

Random · Post by **Random** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:36 pm

Semaj Khan wrote:Unless there are digital watermarks on every copy they sell, then they cannot rationally track pirated PDFs from where I'm standing.

They could be going off the download numbers from the Scribd files, although I would consider that a minority of illegally downloaded PDFs. More likely they are looking at that and then trying to guess at the rest.

T. Foster · Post by **T. Foster** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:01 pm

TheRedPriest wrote:I have no idea what to make of his answer to question #3:
3. The decision to revoke PDFs means that Wizards no longer provides any method to acquire out-of-print books such as material from older editions. Is there any plan to resume allowing customers access to copies of these works through Wizards, or will legitimate customers have to go through out-of-print channels to acquire these products? If the latter is true, why would Wizards choose to avoid providing this access?

We do not have any plans to resume the sale of PDFs, but are actively exploring other options for the digital distribution of our content – including older editions. We understand that digital content is important to our customers.

The most likely answer is that they're going to make DRM-protected ebook versions accessible to people with paid "D&D Insider" subscriptions -- presumably to help make up for them totally dropping the ball on the "virtual game table," which was supposed to have been the primary attraction of D&DI.

JCBoney · Post by **JCBoney** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm

thedungeondelver wrote:The only way they could (potentially) "track" it, short of subpoenas for every ISP on the planet (no...literally, every ISP, every backbone provider...EVERYBODY), would be to hit every torrent site, look for every D&D book being torrented, then add up the seeders and leechers.

Even then they'd only get a gross approximation of "something".

And IRC sites like scifi-fans.net, and rapidshare files, and usenet, and assorted other ways of sharing files.

It's like I said before with the gun control issue... not logistically possible...the horse is out of the barn.