A ToEE by any other name
Moderator: Falconer
A ToEE by any other name
Is this the ToEE?? And what kind of band is Burzum?
Last edited by Kellri on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KELLRI
All Killer No Filler
Wrestling bears is not easy. It's almost impossible to get them to sell for you. - Superstar Billy Graham
All Killer No Filler
Wrestling bears is not easy. It's almost impossible to get them to sell for you. - Superstar Billy Graham
Burzum... one man band (has had assistance from a few others along the way), the guy Varg (born Kristian, but changed it) Vikernes is a convicted killer and church burner, neo nazi (claims to not be in contact with any such groups any longer, which is quite helpful when he has parole hearings), something of a Charles Manson equivalent for Norway if the hype is to be believed... Burzum played black metal until the guy went to prison, where he decided that guitars were "nigger instruments" since metal reached back to rock and roll and the blues, and so released two keyboard-only albums all about Nordic mythology.
He used to dress up in medieval gear for promotional photos, and even though the picture doesn't show up in your post, I've seen an essay dealing with this... Varg was (is?) a role-player with the TOEE near-reproduction on one of his covers, and a map from a MERP supplement in the background of one of his promo photos.
He used to dress up in medieval gear for promotional photos, and even though the picture doesn't show up in your post, I've seen an essay dealing with this... Varg was (is?) a role-player with the TOEE near-reproduction on one of his covers, and a map from a MERP supplement in the background of one of his promo photos.
Yah, I always wondered about the history behind the album cover. Thanks for the information JimLotFp. I did not realize he was the one convicted for the Fantoft Stave church burning in Norway.
I think over again my small adventures. My fears, those small ones that seemed so big, for all the vital things I had to get and to reach, and yet, there is only one great thing, the only thing, to live to see the great day that dawns, and the light that fills the world. - Old Inuit Song
“Superstitions are religious forms surviving the loss of ideas. Some truth no longer known or a truth which has changed its aspect is the origin and explanation of all. The name from the Latin, superstes, signfies that which survives, they are the dead remnants of old knowledge or opinion” - Eliphas Levi (138 The History of Magic).
“Let no one wake a man brusquely for it is a matter difficult of cure if the soul find not its way back to him”, the Upanishads of ancient India ( 58 Our Oriental Heritage, Durant).
"Life is intrinsically, well, boring and dangerous at the same time. At any given moment the floor may open up. Of course, it almost never does; that's what makes it so boring" – Edward Gorey.
"The bright day is done and we are for the dark" - Shakespeare
"No lamp burns till morning" - Persian proverb.
“The living close the eyes of the dead, but it is the dead that open the eyes of the living”— Old Slavic saying.
'The best place to hide a light is in the sun' – old Arab proverb.
'To thee, thou wedding-guest!
He prayeth well who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast.
He prayeth best who loveth best,
All things both great and small:
For the dear God, who loveth us,
He made and loveth all' - Samuel Taylor Coleridge (VII Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner).
“Superstitions are religious forms surviving the loss of ideas. Some truth no longer known or a truth which has changed its aspect is the origin and explanation of all. The name from the Latin, superstes, signfies that which survives, they are the dead remnants of old knowledge or opinion” - Eliphas Levi (138 The History of Magic).
“Let no one wake a man brusquely for it is a matter difficult of cure if the soul find not its way back to him”, the Upanishads of ancient India ( 58 Our Oriental Heritage, Durant).
"Life is intrinsically, well, boring and dangerous at the same time. At any given moment the floor may open up. Of course, it almost never does; that's what makes it so boring" – Edward Gorey.
"The bright day is done and we are for the dark" - Shakespeare
"No lamp burns till morning" - Persian proverb.
“The living close the eyes of the dead, but it is the dead that open the eyes of the living”— Old Slavic saying.
'The best place to hide a light is in the sun' – old Arab proverb.
'To thee, thou wedding-guest!
He prayeth well who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast.
He prayeth best who loveth best,
All things both great and small:
For the dear God, who loveth us,
He made and loveth all' - Samuel Taylor Coleridge (VII Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner).
-
JRMapes
- Old School Games
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- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:41 pm
- Location: S.E. Kansas
- Contact:
Yeah the guy was a real fricking tool and his music pretty much sucked as much too. If there ever was a person or company that I was rooting for WOTC to crack the whip on and sue the hell out of, it was this idiot and his record company.
Jerry
Jerry
[color=red][b]UPDATED[/b][/color] [size=75][url=http://jrmapes.livejournal.com/][b]The Web Between Worlds[/b][/url] - My LiveJournal - Personal and Gaming News.
IMTU: JR Mapes 0309 C38A975-D S tc++(**) ru+ tm+ !tn t4 tg- t20 !rtt ?t5 ge+ 3i++ c+ jt- au ls+ pi+ ta- he+ kk+ hi++ as++ va dr so+ zh da++ vi+ 633
[color=yellow]TRAVELLER INFLUENCE[/color]: "No other rpg except D&D has influenced current gaming more than Classic Traveller." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GROGNARD GEARHEADS[/color]:"Building anything for Traveller is a blast. Just make sure you've got a spreadsheet and a college education. Traveller is built for REAL MEN. There's none of that freeform prose for pussies you'll see in other games." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]THE DUNGEON GESTALT[/color] - D&D is primal fetishism. It makes relics out of old character sheets and totems out of a stack of hardback rulebooks. The dungeon crawl itself is a ritual with no obligation to make sense beyond the circle of participants. In that sense, it's a lot like a cave painting of some ancient hunt. It's a convergence of random events in a controlled setting that forms the basis of a heroic tale in the minds of the participants. Powerful and primitive social magic that can't be reliably explained but only experienced. And IMO, a much more 'real' experience than the forced plot you see in most 'storyteller' games. [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GAMING-Back To The Basics[/color]:"It was a helluva romp in the 70s. The choices were D&D in the white box, Traveller in the black box, or if we wanted something really bizarre, Empire of the Petal Throne in the colourful box! ...You know... it's stunning. Between them, those three games cover so much ground, everything since has been footnotes and elaborations." [i]- pyratejohn[/i]
[url=http://knights-n-knaves.com/][b]Knights & Knaves[/b][/url] OD&D/AD&D/Traveller/Battletech/
[/size]
IMTU: JR Mapes 0309 C38A975-D S tc++(**) ru+ tm+ !tn t4 tg- t20 !rtt ?t5 ge+ 3i++ c+ jt- au ls+ pi+ ta- he+ kk+ hi++ as++ va dr so+ zh da++ vi+ 633
[color=yellow]TRAVELLER INFLUENCE[/color]: "No other rpg except D&D has influenced current gaming more than Classic Traveller." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GROGNARD GEARHEADS[/color]:"Building anything for Traveller is a blast. Just make sure you've got a spreadsheet and a college education. Traveller is built for REAL MEN. There's none of that freeform prose for pussies you'll see in other games." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]THE DUNGEON GESTALT[/color] - D&D is primal fetishism. It makes relics out of old character sheets and totems out of a stack of hardback rulebooks. The dungeon crawl itself is a ritual with no obligation to make sense beyond the circle of participants. In that sense, it's a lot like a cave painting of some ancient hunt. It's a convergence of random events in a controlled setting that forms the basis of a heroic tale in the minds of the participants. Powerful and primitive social magic that can't be reliably explained but only experienced. And IMO, a much more 'real' experience than the forced plot you see in most 'storyteller' games. [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GAMING-Back To The Basics[/color]:"It was a helluva romp in the 70s. The choices were D&D in the white box, Traveller in the black box, or if we wanted something really bizarre, Empire of the Petal Throne in the colourful box! ...You know... it's stunning. Between them, those three games cover so much ground, everything since has been footnotes and elaborations." [i]- pyratejohn[/i]
[url=http://knights-n-knaves.com/][b]Knights & Knaves[/b][/url] OD&D/AD&D/Traveller/Battletech/
[/size]
Yikes! I just stumbled across the picture on google...so I guess when my mom warned me about devil-worshipping roleplayers 25 years ago she wasn't entirely FOS.
KELLRI
All Killer No Filler
Wrestling bears is not easy. It's almost impossible to get them to sell for you. - Superstar Billy Graham
All Killer No Filler
Wrestling bears is not easy. It's almost impossible to get them to sell for you. - Superstar Billy Graham
Asatru would be Odin, right? As in the Norse god? Seems mighty popular amongst the Aryan Nation guys in prison. How exactly do you distinguish the obviously subtle theological differences? Do you still perform hanging sacrifices at Upssala or has that been dropped in favor of a soup line for the homeless? How can you be sure some of those Asatru-guys aren't really just spoilers for Loki?? Is that whole Ragnarok thing real or just an 'allegory'?
P.S. I still think Immigrant Song rocks!
P.S. I still think Immigrant Song rocks!
KELLRI
All Killer No Filler
Wrestling bears is not easy. It's almost impossible to get them to sell for you. - Superstar Billy Graham
All Killer No Filler
Wrestling bears is not easy. It's almost impossible to get them to sell for you. - Superstar Billy Graham
-
BlackBat242
- Grognard
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:41 am
- Location: Prime Material
I have a close friend who is accredited with the Utah State Prison as clergy. His ID lists him as what he is... a priest of Thor.
And no, the Asatru have nothing to do with white "supremacy" (or any such groups), nor do they perform human sacrifices.
In AD&D terms, he would classify as Chaotic Good.
http://asatru.org/thekinrd.html#top
http://www.asatru.org/
While Ásatrú is generally a tolerant religion, it is sometimes erroneously identified with neo-Nazi and "white power" organizations which also use Odinist symbols.
The three largest American Ásatrú organizations have specifically denounced any association with racist groups. There is actually an antagonistic relationship between many neo-Nazis and the membership of most Ásatrú organizations in the USA, who view "national socialism as an unwanted totalitarian philosophy incompatible with freedom-loving Norse paganism".
The often problematic association comes from the fact that among neo-Nazis, there tend to be specifically 'white power' forms of Ásatrú and Odinism, which are viewed in such groups as being important attempts to retrace early segments of white european history, and they tend to be popular among those who view Christianity as a fundamentally Judaic religion.
And no, the Asatru have nothing to do with white "supremacy" (or any such groups), nor do they perform human sacrifices.
In AD&D terms, he would classify as Chaotic Good.
http://asatru.org/thekinrd.html#top
http://www.asatru.org/
While Ásatrú is generally a tolerant religion, it is sometimes erroneously identified with neo-Nazi and "white power" organizations which also use Odinist symbols.
The three largest American Ásatrú organizations have specifically denounced any association with racist groups. There is actually an antagonistic relationship between many neo-Nazis and the membership of most Ásatrú organizations in the USA, who view "national socialism as an unwanted totalitarian philosophy incompatible with freedom-loving Norse paganism".
The often problematic association comes from the fact that among neo-Nazis, there tend to be specifically 'white power' forms of Ásatrú and Odinism, which are viewed in such groups as being important attempts to retrace early segments of white european history, and they tend to be popular among those who view Christianity as a fundamentally Judaic religion.
“A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.”
Isaac Asimov
Isaac Asimov
Cool expo. No sarcasm intended. I gotta love the thought of your buddy walking past all those Mormon prison guards in Utah to serve his flock. That's some serious badass! I'm not in the market for a new religion, but may I ask a few more questions??
Would you say Asatru/Odinism is primarily concerned with power? Is there a certain ethnicity attached to it (I'm assuming not all worshippers are Norwegians). Any cool sacraments - mead, mushrooms, frosty mornings?
Would you say Asatru/Odinism is primarily concerned with power? Is there a certain ethnicity attached to it (I'm assuming not all worshippers are Norwegians). Any cool sacraments - mead, mushrooms, frosty mornings?
KELLRI
All Killer No Filler
Wrestling bears is not easy. It's almost impossible to get them to sell for you. - Superstar Billy Graham
All Killer No Filler
Wrestling bears is not easy. It's almost impossible to get them to sell for you. - Superstar Billy Graham
-
northrundicandus
- Blood and Souls for Arioch!
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JRMapes
- Old School Games
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- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:41 pm
- Location: S.E. Kansas
- Contact:
I actually have a few friends that are deeply into their Ásatrú faith. I even seriously considered it for a while and joined them in a number of their practices and ceremonies.
(and honestly would consider going back to it if I really started to seriously care about religion and beliefs again, thus far I feel I have been pretty well burnt by most of my former/current beliefs - but that is a topic better left for elsewhere) .
Two of them are exactly what one would expect of the stereotype. White, 6ft plus, 230 lbs, big sons of guns in good shape, with long hair similar to that in the pic above. Both heavily involved in medieval reenactment and so on. Real tough SOBs. The other was a little spindlely guy, total bookworm nerd type, mixed race. But oddly enough he was the one in charge of the local group. I saw him get challenged to a wrestling match by one of the other bug guys when we were hanging out one night. He had the big guy almost in tears and "tapping out" in a very short amount of time. He may have looked like nerdy book worm but turned out he was also a state champion wrestler. Heh.
Their belief system is very appealing, at least it was to me.
One thing I always found funny was whenever I would go to one of the local moots that the Pagan community would hold or to the circles for the various holidays my friend Amber would host (she follows a celtic/fey religion) we would inevitably get around to talking about the different groups. Usually the local Ásatrú didn't attend these gatherings since they usually had their own gatherings going on at the same time, so obviously they and their belief would come up - not in a bad way mind you - but one of the things that was always said that I found amusing was "never piss off an Ásatrú."
Most of the pagans that I knew followed the Three-fold Rule. If you don't know, it basically says if you do something bad or evil, it will come back to you 3 times worse. A basic karma like rule.
Well, After I became friends with a number of Ásatrú, I realized why the other groups always said to never piss them off. One of my Ásatrú buddies told me of their groups take on the three-fold rule. That being,
If you screw with me I will fold you in half three times.
Heh.
I knew there was a reason I got along with them from the get go.
Jerry
(and honestly would consider going back to it if I really started to seriously care about religion and beliefs again, thus far I feel I have been pretty well burnt by most of my former/current beliefs - but that is a topic better left for elsewhere) .
Two of them are exactly what one would expect of the stereotype. White, 6ft plus, 230 lbs, big sons of guns in good shape, with long hair similar to that in the pic above. Both heavily involved in medieval reenactment and so on. Real tough SOBs. The other was a little spindlely guy, total bookworm nerd type, mixed race. But oddly enough he was the one in charge of the local group. I saw him get challenged to a wrestling match by one of the other bug guys when we were hanging out one night. He had the big guy almost in tears and "tapping out" in a very short amount of time. He may have looked like nerdy book worm but turned out he was also a state champion wrestler. Heh.
Their belief system is very appealing, at least it was to me.
One thing I always found funny was whenever I would go to one of the local moots that the Pagan community would hold or to the circles for the various holidays my friend Amber would host (she follows a celtic/fey religion) we would inevitably get around to talking about the different groups. Usually the local Ásatrú didn't attend these gatherings since they usually had their own gatherings going on at the same time, so obviously they and their belief would come up - not in a bad way mind you - but one of the things that was always said that I found amusing was "never piss off an Ásatrú."
Most of the pagans that I knew followed the Three-fold Rule. If you don't know, it basically says if you do something bad or evil, it will come back to you 3 times worse. A basic karma like rule.
Well, After I became friends with a number of Ásatrú, I realized why the other groups always said to never piss them off. One of my Ásatrú buddies told me of their groups take on the three-fold rule. That being,
If you screw with me I will fold you in half three times.
Heh.
I knew there was a reason I got along with them from the get go.
Jerry
[color=red][b]UPDATED[/b][/color] [size=75][url=http://jrmapes.livejournal.com/][b]The Web Between Worlds[/b][/url] - My LiveJournal - Personal and Gaming News.
IMTU: JR Mapes 0309 C38A975-D S tc++(**) ru+ tm+ !tn t4 tg- t20 !rtt ?t5 ge+ 3i++ c+ jt- au ls+ pi+ ta- he+ kk+ hi++ as++ va dr so+ zh da++ vi+ 633
[color=yellow]TRAVELLER INFLUENCE[/color]: "No other rpg except D&D has influenced current gaming more than Classic Traveller." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GROGNARD GEARHEADS[/color]:"Building anything for Traveller is a blast. Just make sure you've got a spreadsheet and a college education. Traveller is built for REAL MEN. There's none of that freeform prose for pussies you'll see in other games." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]THE DUNGEON GESTALT[/color] - D&D is primal fetishism. It makes relics out of old character sheets and totems out of a stack of hardback rulebooks. The dungeon crawl itself is a ritual with no obligation to make sense beyond the circle of participants. In that sense, it's a lot like a cave painting of some ancient hunt. It's a convergence of random events in a controlled setting that forms the basis of a heroic tale in the minds of the participants. Powerful and primitive social magic that can't be reliably explained but only experienced. And IMO, a much more 'real' experience than the forced plot you see in most 'storyteller' games. [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GAMING-Back To The Basics[/color]:"It was a helluva romp in the 70s. The choices were D&D in the white box, Traveller in the black box, or if we wanted something really bizarre, Empire of the Petal Throne in the colourful box! ...You know... it's stunning. Between them, those three games cover so much ground, everything since has been footnotes and elaborations." [i]- pyratejohn[/i]
[url=http://knights-n-knaves.com/][b]Knights & Knaves[/b][/url] OD&D/AD&D/Traveller/Battletech/
[/size]
IMTU: JR Mapes 0309 C38A975-D S tc++(**) ru+ tm+ !tn t4 tg- t20 !rtt ?t5 ge+ 3i++ c+ jt- au ls+ pi+ ta- he+ kk+ hi++ as++ va dr so+ zh da++ vi+ 633
[color=yellow]TRAVELLER INFLUENCE[/color]: "No other rpg except D&D has influenced current gaming more than Classic Traveller." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GROGNARD GEARHEADS[/color]:"Building anything for Traveller is a blast. Just make sure you've got a spreadsheet and a college education. Traveller is built for REAL MEN. There's none of that freeform prose for pussies you'll see in other games." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]THE DUNGEON GESTALT[/color] - D&D is primal fetishism. It makes relics out of old character sheets and totems out of a stack of hardback rulebooks. The dungeon crawl itself is a ritual with no obligation to make sense beyond the circle of participants. In that sense, it's a lot like a cave painting of some ancient hunt. It's a convergence of random events in a controlled setting that forms the basis of a heroic tale in the minds of the participants. Powerful and primitive social magic that can't be reliably explained but only experienced. And IMO, a much more 'real' experience than the forced plot you see in most 'storyteller' games. [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GAMING-Back To The Basics[/color]:"It was a helluva romp in the 70s. The choices were D&D in the white box, Traveller in the black box, or if we wanted something really bizarre, Empire of the Petal Throne in the colourful box! ...You know... it's stunning. Between them, those three games cover so much ground, everything since has been footnotes and elaborations." [i]- pyratejohn[/i]
[url=http://knights-n-knaves.com/][b]Knights & Knaves[/b][/url] OD&D/AD&D/Traveller/Battletech/
[/size]