Your opinion on artwork for OSRIC modules

[AxeMental]

Do you prefer artwork that looks very similar to the styles of the original 1E era artists (in medium, perspective, composition, etc.) or would you accept completely new styles for OSRIC covers and interior art? I'm not saying 3E style giant elf eared freaks in poses, but what about impressionism etc.

[thedungeondelver]

Do you prefer artwork that looks very similar to the styles of the original 1E era artists (in medium, perspective, composition, etc.) or would you accept completely new styles for OSRIC covers and interior art? I'm not saying 3E style giant elf eared freaks in poses, but what about impressionism etc.

I prefer the stark (no no, not John Stark) artwork of the 70's and 80's to what passes as D&D art these days. The coarse lines of Trampier and Sutherland; the organic weirdness of Otus, the Frazetta-like quality of Bill Willingham and Jim Roslof, the bannana hammocks and flared trousers of Dee- well, okay maybe not the bannana hammocks and flared trousers of Dee but you see where I'm going with this.

[meepo]

I think you'll find a lot of support for the 1e style, from myself included, but I'm also very much open to new styles. The majority of the 3e artwork is pretty unsavory to me, but occasionally I enjoy a piece of it.

For example, I could picture seeing this in an old book - maybe not as a colored painting, but the style isn't over the top and uber-superheroic. This one isn't half bad either for setting a particular mood without being an over the top juggernaut of uncomprehendable positions like, well, this.

[Mythmere]

For covers, I think that impressionism could be used very powerfully vs the standard acrylic or monochrome pictures. Yggsburgh vol 1 is an example of real art being used as a cover, and it's quite dramatic.

For internal artwork, I can't imagine that the old school pen and ink is the only good way, but I have yet to see another medium that works as well.

[AxeMental]

Meepo, sorry but IMO all 3 of those examples would fall in the 3E/D20 basket. With this question I wasn't thinking of moving AD&D support material in the direction of CURRENT fantasy art (which mostly sucks) but rather broadening our basket to bring in outside artists with more of a fine art feel. BTW I love all the early TSR stuff, and I consider it high art (its classic, and will hold its own over time).

To see what I mean, go to the kids section of your bookstore and check out some of the better illustrated childrens books...you'll see they have very little in common with the cheese ball D20/3E look, which is more directly linked to 2E/Magic the Gathering/Japanimation cards. And many of these kids books are illustrated with classic painting techniques more common to an art gallery then a fantasy publ.

I guess I'm asking, would new kinds of art (impressionism for ex.) make new material more fresh. In other words we want OSRIC to be both a reinforcement of the past, but also it's modules and support material to be breaking new ground. In any event I think we should move away from the 3E/D20/heavily photoshopped look as possible.

[Stormcrow]

The covers and interiors done in the style of the old modules are awesome, but are largely done for the nostalgia, and a sense of identity ("This is an old-school product; you can tell just by looking at it.")

This is fine, but it'll be when a company can develop its own style and identity for an OSRIC line that I'll be truly impressed. For me, the measure of OSRIC's success will be whether the market ever sees it as anything other than the siren call of nostalgia. All of us here know better, but we're all old-school fanboys anyway, so we don't count.

David
Stardate 6756.2

[T. Foster]

For covers, I think that impressionism could be used very powerfully vs the standard acrylic or monochrome pictures. Yggsburgh vol 1 is an example of real art being used as a cover, and it's quite dramatic.

But the Yggsburgh vol 1 cover is a reprinted piece by Jeffrey Jones (one of the premier sf/fantasy/horror artists of the last few decades -- less famous than Frazetta but, at least IMO, actually quite a bit better). Using that as a standard against which to judge other rpg art seems both unrealistic and unfair. Still, it is a great piece, though...

[AxeMental]

Thats the kind of look I'm talking about. Unfortunately there seems to have been a break, probably dating back to comic book illustration. Part of the problem I'm sure is demand. The fact is 3tard artwork has a following, what we consider good does not (at least not large enough). Also consider the time to create good artwork vs. cheap effects and gimmicks.

[Mythmere]

For covers, I think that impressionism could be used very powerfully vs the standard acrylic or monochrome pictures. Yggsburgh vol 1 is an example of real art being used as a cover, and it's quite dramatic.

But the Yggsburgh vol 1 cover is a reprinted piece by Jeffrey Jones (one of the premier sf/fantasy/horror artists of the last few decades -- less famous than Frazetta but, at least IMO, actually quite a bit better). Using that as a standard against which to judge other rpg art seems both unrealistic and unfair. Still, it is a great piece, though...

I wasn't saying everything had to be that quality - I was pointing out that it's a completely different type of art than one associates with TSR or Judges Guild module covers. So, it's an example of another way to go with cover art that's actually new but still very old school.

[John Stark]

Do you prefer artwork that looks very similar to the styles of the original 1E era artists (in medium, perspective, composition, etc.)

Yes.

or would you accept completely new styles for OSRIC covers and interior art?

No.

I like the stuff from the Gygax era of TSR for gaming because it seems "pulpy" to me. It reminds me of stuff from old scifi and fantasy books and stories, a style that I enjoy immensely.

Gimme that pulp look for gaming material (as well as for scifi/fantasy fiction), and I'm happy. I read scifi and fantasy for escape, game for the same reason, and like art for those genres that fit my desire for escapism.

If I want "real" art, I'll look for it elsewhere.

Yggsburgh vol 1 is an example of real art being used as a cover, and it's quite dramatic. [snip...] So, it's an example of another way to go with cover art that's actually new but still very old school.

Frankly, I think the cover for Yggsburgh sucks. It does not look "old school" in the least to me, and indeed, if I saw that in a store, my eyes would pass right over it given how bland and so non-sword and sorcery that cover is.

[AxeMental]

John, I agree the excitement isn't there with that pic. What about if it was a painting done in a similar style but of monsters and action. What about something like the old Savage Sword covers like: http://www.tropiccomics.com/ebay/conan115.jpg

[xyanthon]

I really love the older artwork and for me, David Sutherland, Jim Hollowary, Dave Trampier, Erol Otus, Darlene, Rosslof, Willingham, Dee, and the rest really capture what I love about gaming and fantasy. To me, they are the images I think of when I read stories in books, etc.

Outside of gaming, the Hildebrandt bros, Vallejo, Froud and those guys also have stunning work that really gets me fired up. While I certainly think that there are some excellent artists working on 3e projects, they have a completely different feel and approach to their work than the older artists. The look of gaming art has changed from a pseudomedieval style to what has been described as "dungeonpunk". I miss the old style. Well, let me say, I miss seeing art that portrays fantasy characters that don't look like they've just stepped out of an S&M shop.

So, as far as the talk about nastalgia goes, I think it really is something more than that. There is a complete thematic change that has happened to make the work more edgier and less grounded in real world history/mythology.

Having said that, I like Wayne Reynold's art quite a bit. He does do a lot of the "dungeonpunk" stuff, but I really much prefer what he does with his work in the Osprey Publishing line of history books. Now that stuff would definately suit the feel of a 1e dungeon crawl for me.

[Wheggi]

Well posted xyanthon, and I agree: while there are many very talented artists currently working in the rpg industry, most of them have adapted their sensabilities to match the market, yet I feel many of them could do some great work of their own styling when they remove themselves from the genre.

I myself think that now is the time and OSRIC is the place for artists to make something completely new. We have a chance here to establish a "new" norm for the rpg industry, or even better wipe the stereotypes completely off the map and create an environment more accepting to a wider array of graphic design styles that still convey the vibe we're striving for. Heavy Metal magazine is a perfect example of how this can be accomplished: back in its heyday there were many contributing artists who illustrated a wide scope of subject matter in a variety of mediums. Yet, no matter if it was Den or Druuna, it felt like HM magazine.

BTW xyanthon, how's Okinawa treating you? Still have those gigantic banana spiders, typhoons, and the vending machines that sell beer? Lived there for three years myself (Kadena AB), and really enjoyed it.

EDIT: ha, I just went to your site . . . our son is called Bear as well! Small world.

Best,

- Wheggi

[xyanthon]

Wheggi,

Yep, Okinawa still has all of that. I work as a civillian civil service employee for the army (I got out of the Air Force in Jan 2006). We have had quite a few typhoons this year but none have directly hit the island.

I agree with you about OSRIC. I don't so much consider myself an artist that emuates the artistic styling of the 70's and 80's RPG artists so much as someone who has been drawing all my life and that stuff naturally influenced my style. I think artisitc style is somewhat akin to finding your "voice" if you are a writer. So while I label myself as an "Old School" artist, I think it is mainly because that is my artistic voice rather than a conscious nostalgic emulation of older artists. I have actually done some work for 3e (I illustrated a book of fantastical creatures for a PDF company called Khan's Press a while back). For me, OSRIC just seems like a natural fit because my style suits the 1e genre better than the 3e (or even 2e for that matter). I'm working on my own OSRIC project (which will take me a little while as I'm collaborating on some other project with some folks). My OSRIC project is a sheer labor of love and a great creative exercise for me. I want to capture what I love best about fantasy and frame that firmly in the present, not so much as a trip down memory lane.

[Mythmere]

A game's art should match the game's tenor and tone. I think photo-realistic art does not match heroic fantasy, period. I think highly photoshopped computer generated art almost never does, but I'm betting that some artists *might* be able to do it, somehow. I saw a piece done for Bill Silvey by the artist of Nodwick that achieves this. I think cartoony art fails almost always ... but witness the cartoons in the DMG.

1e art follows certain "rules," with many exceptions, and these rules match the game's tenor. No non-action poses (exception - smoking EGG on six-sided die, exception - many of the monster illos), no "looking at the camera," (exception - monster manual illos).

Meepo's examples would work well in pen and ink, but the photoshopped look makes them "modern" in a way that smacks away the whole fantasy nature of the subject matter. Otherwise, the poses and subjects are quite old school. I also can't put my finger on why the hard lines of pen and ink work better for D&D art, but they certainly do for me, compared to grey washes and reliance on shading.

The pen and ink thing applies to internal illos - I think the "rules" for cover art are quite different, and I think color art has a lot more scope for variation and experimentation.