Anyone have any experiance with Scribus?

[AxeMental]

If yes, how do you like it in terms of publishing (books, modules etc.). Is it difficult to use compared to other programs in terms of layout, placing illustrations, etc. Thanks

[Jeff]

I tried real hard to like it, but I just couldn't bring myself to dedicate the time necessary to master it. I'm fairly sure that if someone did, then it would probably work very well. But, so would LaTeX (or just TeX).

If I had NO money and loads of time, I might go this route. But I might also find a second job for a few months and pay for something better . . . or sell some old junk.

If I were completely broke and had little time, then LibreOffice does a fairly decent job.

I found that Microsoft Publisher was very good at layout and fairly intuitive. If I didn't have the $$$ to spend, I'd just use this.

I find that InDesign has few alternatives that are viable to me .

Last time I tried Scribus was probably 1.5 or maybe even 2 years ago.

[robertsconley]

If yes, how do you like it in terms of publishing (books, modules etc.). Is it difficult to use compared to other programs in terms of layout, placing illustrations, etc. Thanks

It works but has a learning curve. To give a better answer I need to ask if you have any experience with Desktop publishing programs like Pagemaker, Insight, or Publisher.

Overall it on the same plane as far as learning goes with Insight, but Publisher is easier to learn than other but has less horsepower than either. Publisher choked with the layout of my Scourge of the Demon Wolf at 96 letter size pages. I had to chop it into separate files export the PDFs and combine them into the final release with Acrobat.

[AxeMental]

What do you guys think of Apples Pages (how does it compare to the above list)? I've read its about the same as Publisher. Is that a fare comparison?

[Landifarne]

What do you guys think of Apples Pages (how does it compare to the above list)? I've read its about the same as Publisher. Is that a fare comparison?

Pages is just a crappy word processor, of less use than MS Word being that it has less functionality in terms of font choice and compatibility with standard programs. It's not suitable for doing desktop publishing, other than producing a simple brochure or newsletter.

[MojoBob]

I gave Scribus a go when my ancient copy of InDesign stopped working and I couldn't afford to update it. I can't say I particularly enjoyed the experience; I seemed to have to fight it every step of the way. In the end I just spent a few bucks on a copy of Serif PagePlus X9 (Now OOP, alas). It's not as good as InDesign, especially in table handling, but it's not bad at all.

[gizmomathboy]

Yeah, I tilted at Scribus a couple of times but I just don't understand the basic ideas around publishing software which this aligns with.

If I need to do something like that I'll typically reach for LaTeX.

[Guy Fullerton]

I can't speak to Pages compatibility with other apps (because I use it to do my own thing, and don't require interoperarion), but I give it more publishing credit than Landifarne:

I used Pages to layout five reasonably well-received modules & supplements (plus generate the print-ready masters for the ones that were pro-printed), some handouts/references (with lots of tables and charts) for my home game, plus various other non-gaming POD stuff (cookbooks, map compilations, and that kind of stuff).

The last year or so, I've been using Pages as the word processor for the keying for my primary home campaign dungeon. (Admittedly, I've started switching some keying over to google docs because I can access it easier on my phone.)

[Philotomy Jurament]

I tried real hard to like it, but I just couldn't bring myself to dedicate the time necessary to master it. I'm fairly sure that if someone did, then it would probably work very well. But, so would LaTeX (or just TeX)...Last time I tried Scribus was probably 1.5 or maybe even 2 years ago.

Pretty much this. I tried Scribus some years back and found I didn't really want to invest the time in learning to use it properly. I'm sure it's fine if you invest that time, though. I'd rather just use LaTeX (and maybe Lyx).

[Philotomy Jurament]

What do you guys think of Apples Pages (how does it compare to the above list)? I've read its about the same as Publisher. Is that a fare comparison?

I don't have any practical experience with Pages, but my impression of it was that it's a word processor, rather than a document processor or desktop publishing application. I know people do, but I wouldn't choose a word processor for a publishing project. Too many gotchas/headaches, in my experience.

[robertsconley]

Here is a tutorial for Scribus
https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Get_Sta ... th_Scribus

Here my opinion about layout software.

First my #1 issue with any desktop publishing software, including Pagemaker which I loved back in the day, is tables. In terms of managing and placing text and images; Pagemaker, Indesign, and Scribus, excel. In terms of setting up and managing tables, it OMFG.

Word for WIndows
I used this for the Majestic Wilderlands supplements as it was a single column digest layout. By far Word for Windows is the easiest to use to setup good looking tables.

Microsoft Publisher
It almost too helpful, but does it make it easy to export the PDF in the right format that One Bookshelf and Lulu expects. And you can import tables made in Word. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles as the high end desktop publishing programs that allow you to keep text legible and still save pages.

The downside is that it choked on the image heavy Scourge of the Demon Wolf. Just alright crashed anytime I exported a PDF. I had to cut it down to four separate files, export those, and then stitch them back together with Acrobat. I used the 2013 version of Publisher. I don't know how 2016 will work out in this regard.

Indesign
The current gold standard, and has a considerable learning curve. But then again anything at this level has a learning curve. To get it cost $50 a month. You can get it by itself for $20 a month, but for $50 you get everything they have and it updated when they update. You also get older version of their software if you need it. (Which I did in order to convert my old Pagemaker files).

I decided to go what the hell and subscribe after my entertainment/hobby budgets opened up after I dropped all my MMORPGs subscriptions and more importantly my cable bill. So far so good. Yes if I cease to pay I can't open up my files anymore but it is a lot easier to budget for than paying for a multi hundred dollar upgrade annually.

Scribus
But money is money and when you don't have the room in the budget there is Scribus. Scribus work on the same general principle as all DTP software except it has own control and keyboard layout. The basic idea of any DtP software at this level is that the document consists of a bunch of containers. Some of have text and some have images. Text containers can be linked together so that the text flows from one page to the next.

Again at this level it is all about climbing the learning curve.

LaTEX
LaTEX is strongest at managing the look of text. It can do text placement as well. It works by taking raw text and using codes to format it look and placement. One reason it has enduring popularity it it ability to deal with complex mathematics papers with formulas and diagrams. Like Indesign and Scribus, LaTEX is has a steep learning curve.

My Recommendation
Go with Word for Windows for now. If you spend money use it to buy a nice font like Souvenir, Bookman Old Style, or Futura. Or try LibreOffice but I haven't used it. If the result is shit then you can always save the text and pick one of the above DTP software.

For example this document about Herbs and Elixirs was done with Word
http://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/ ... Rev_02.pdf

[AxeMental]

You can't open your documents if you aren't shelling out 50 bucks a month (thats like extortion)? Jesus. This might be OK for a pro, but for someone with a side business or a strong hobby interest? F them. Sell disks like the old days. If someone wants a update or do a subscription offer that too. Makes a guy want to torrent a bootleg. Thank God for programs like Gimp and Scribus, at least thats something.

[Kellri]

I'll second most of what Rob said, particularly regarding tables. Oh damn, but are those a massive pain in the neck to handle when trying to convert from one piece of software to another! If you intend to put the text into multiple columns and then place the tables you're going to run into all manner of weirdness. Even Word is not immune to this. If you then plan to convert the document into a pdf you're going to have to play around with the document quite bit, making sure that you don't suddenly have bizarre text breaks running into another page and so on.

CDD4 wasn't a huge problem as I remember, as there wasn't a lot of text or columns - just tables. The Pelinore book was a nightmare, as there were lots of tables (all the NPC statblocks are formatted as tables) and art and columns. One issue involved the placement of art that overlapped a table or was supposed to fill a space at the end of a column. The workaround as I remember was to format each piece of art as 'under the text'. No matter what, DO NOT use the default formatting of 'in line with the text'.

Eventually, I ran into the same problem Rob mentioned with the pdf conversion....my poor laptop just choked on the sheer size of the document, so I opted to convert each chapter, make sure it was ok, and then merge all of those together into a single pdf. The cover and the maps I did as separate conversions entirely and then inserted those where I wanted them. All in all I'm happy with the end result as it doesn't look too amateurish. Pretty good for something made by a guy sitting in his bedroom in Vietnam, all considered.

Needless to say, there's absolutely no way I would even begin to attempt laying out Dangerous Dungeons myself. 600+ pages of text and well over 200 tables would probably only result in me spending a number of weeks recuperating in a sanitarium after tossing my computer out the window.

You're gonna learn your own limitations - try to avoid learning them the hard way!

[Jeff]

Here my opinion about layout software.

All good points.

You can't open your documents if you aren't shelling out 50 bucks a month (thats like extortion)? Jesus. This might be OK for a pro, but for someone with a side business or a strong hobby interest? F them. Sell disks like the old days. If someone wants a update or do a subscription offer that too. Makes a guy want to torrent a bootleg. Thank God for programs like Gimp and Scribus, at least thats something.

What he means is that the application doesn't work. You can still open your files using a different application if that program understands the file format. Your PSD files will still work with Gimp or Paint.net even if Photoshop's license has expired.

Look at it, though, from a cost perspective. Let's go solely with the $20/mo. for InDesign. Many people love gourmet coffees. Forego 5 of those every month to get a solid tool. Or don't eat fast food 4 times per month and bring your lunch instead. $20 is not a significant amount for someone who has a solid budget. Without knowing too much about psychology, I would argue that you'll be happier working with a good tool that has all the capability you want/need rather than trying to make multiple tools work for you. They work in a pinch, but it's not ideal.

Most people can find the $20/mo. ($30 without a subscription).

Also . . . if you learn InDesign and are savvy, you can prep ALL of your materials beforehand for multiple projects, get your license for 1 month, then do all of your work in that month, then let the license expire. Before you let it expire, export everything to open formats (like .idml).

Of course, you can always go with QuarkXpress, they still offer the $860 one-time license. That's the same as 3.5 years on Adobe's monthly plan.


On a different note.

I've gotten some decent results out of LibreOffice's Writer. I think it does a better job producing PDFs than Word . . . and I'm pretty much a Word/MS Office evangelist to friends/family/co-workers. LibreOffice, though, has come a long way. It's still not a replacement for InDesign, and in many ways it's not nearly as good as Word, but it does a good job and it's free.

You can also use InDesign CS2 for free:
https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite/ ... d=19SCDRQK#

I don't think it will run on Windows 8 or 10 though.

[robertsconley]

You can't open your documents if you aren't shelling out 50 bucks a month (thats like extortion)? Jesus. This might be OK for a pro, but for someone with a side business or a strong hobby interest? F them. Sell disks like the old days. If someone wants a update or do a subscription offer that too. Makes a guy want to torrent a bootleg. Thank God for programs like Gimp and Scribus, at least thats something.

Look I heard all the gripes when it comes to this stuff. I been in software development for 30 years and using computer to support my hobby since the TRS-80 Model I circa 1980. Yeah it sucks that by shutting down the subscription you can't open the files. But it not that simple of a trade off.

About two years ago, I dug into the Adobe subscriptions. For me my primary problem was with the ancient copy of Adobe Acrobat I had since 2000. I thought about using the single app $20 per month for Acrobat. But said what the hell let's see what $50 gets me.

So I looked at my monthly hobby budget, and carved out $50 to pay for it (a MMORPG subscription and a RPG Hardback). And you know what? It not bad. I was able to download a old version of Insight and get all my Aldus Pagemarker files ported over. And there a lot of little things in there tucked away among the big boy apps like Photoshop, Illustrator, and Insight. You get access to Adobe Premiere if you ever want to edit video or podcasts.

It just not the demon a lot of people make it out to be. In fact I would say it a lot better than was it used be when you paid hundreds of dollars for just one of the above apps. But what hasn't changed is the fact that it is a major decision to use one of this applications.

Before you paid up front and hoped to god that Vista didn't blow up the one thing you got from them. Now you get everything by paying a little more in the long run however you are going to get the upgrades when you need them.

Having said that. If you are willing to put into the time to learn them, Gimp, Scribus, and Inkscape will work for most of what we do. There some killer things that people do with Photoshop, Insight, and Illustrator but at the end of the day the open source apps can do the job.