Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS

[EOTB]

Can someone re-title the thread "Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS as Presented by Kalex the Omen"? It doesn't seem fair that Kalex isn't getting title-billing on this thread, since it otherwise feels like an episode of Firing Line where we get to learn Kalex's opinion and addenda to every other poster's thoughts.

[austinjimm]

This looks hellaciously bad, like the worst of c. 1988 TSR.

This is exactly what I thought as soon as I saw the art and layout samples. Frank is a fun DM to play with at a con, but I don't care for his flavor of fantasy world.

[Geoffrey]

I would imagine that the Empyrea setting will fit most naturally with BECMI, and the farther the other game systems are from BECMI, the less easy the fit.

[Philotomy Jurament]

I stand corrected (see upstream). I still think it looks like a piece of 1990s computer art and maybe that is the charm Frank sees. I don't think it is bad. I think it is a style that is different than the norm. I'm not sure I would commission that illustrator, but I can't say I wouldn't either. It would depend a lot on the project and if I thought the piece would fit.

I think your characterization of that piece as looking like "1990s computer art" is on-target. (I'd say the same about the logo: it has that "90s computer graphic design" feel.) I'm surprised that "girl walking down the road" piece was showcased in the kickstarter info, right after mention of Darlene, Otus, Elmore, Easley, et al. Frankly, the art shown on the kickstarter page doesn't inspire confidence, despite the name-dropping. But hey, art is subjective. Some people may like those pieces, but to me, they say "stay away from this," unfortunately.

From what I see on the kickstarter page, the most compelling thing is the promise of Darlene maps. I dig her Greyhawk maps, and her later Yggsburgh maps.

Anyway, based on what I'm seeing, I won't be pledging on this, but I wish them good luck. If it funds and is produced I'll probably check it out to see the final result.

[Guy Fullerton]

Do you have a CH topic somewhere hereabouts?

Don't want to derail, so in short: Nope. Nothing planned.

[ThirstyStirge]

Right, so then the pledge jumps up $350 ($750 total) and Frank and Darlene will sign your core book....$350 for two sigs. Seriously. However, if you add on another $250 ($1000 total) they will sign ALL of your books. I guess that's a bargain? Lol.

Should be a disclaimer written above those pledge levels that makes clear they're for Acaeum members.

At $600, you get an extra box's worth of MINT shrinkwrap!

You guys are killing me.

Yeah, that particular piece of art is atrocious (garish colour palette, subject has her[?] back to us, poor composition, etc.)

On a side note, I would have immediately funded a book on more generic concepts about building a classic old-school campaign (Tired of killing monsters, taking their treasure and levelling up? Here's how to build a richly-developed campaign for years of enjoyment!), interspersed with boxed anecdotes from the Elder Crew about the glory days at TSR and what it was like to work with EGG, et al. ("I remember that one time that Gary...") That would likely get some of my Benjamins. Competent b/w art would suffice (as long as it was --at minimum -- slightly better than that of Greg Bell. )

[Zenopus Archives]

I would imagine that the Empyrea setting will fit most naturally with BECMI, and the farther the other game systems are from BECMI, the less easy the fit.

As far as I know, which isn't much, Frank ran AD&D 1E until recently and only started running BECMI rules at conventions for fans. So presumably all his campaign material from the '90s-'00s was written using the AD&D 1E rules originally.

I'd dig up a quote but his Q&A thread at DF seems to have been nuked as part of recent events.

[Kellri]

Very little in life is necessary. We get it, you hate new material for OSR systems. Maybe you could post again and tell us how you don't understand it. We haven't heard that one for a couple of hours at least.

Kalex, belabor much? Lemme me put it to you another way - and I don't think I'm alone here. When I see a shit sandwich, I'm going to want to point that out. Not because I don't like new food items, but because I don't like shit sandwiches. Empyria has all of the aroma of a shit sandwich produced by a small Midwestern town full of rednecks eager to get into the Guinness Book of World Records for the biggest, shittiest sandwich ever.

[blackprinceofmuncie]

I'm having a hard time understanding why, if Frank has all of these great ex-TSR artists on board for the project, none of their artwork is featured on the KS page.

The artwork that is featured is bland to awful. Not the best thing to include in your sales pitch for a quarter million dollar project.

[Kalex the Omen]

I'm having a hard time understanding why, if Frank has all of these great ex-TSR artists on board for the project, none of their artwork is featured on the KS page.

Frank has been working on this project for a while. The bigger name contributors have come on in the last few months (Zeb Cook literally came on-board an hour before launch). Rather than put up something previously published by those illustrators, and probably be more harshly criticized than he is now, perhaps this was something that was completed that he could post. I get people not liking the style. I'm not particularly fond of it, and I get the fear about the KS it could cause. We don't launch Kickstarters until the work is 98% done, but many publishers do most of the work after funding. Different philosophies.

[MageInBlack]

I am confused with the $10,000 pledge level. Join the inner circle of play testers? I thought this was play tested for 25 years. Also, play test future products in years to come? Aren't the gray beards dropping like flies? How much more can they make before they leave for their quest in search of the Fountain of Old Age. Especially the way they smoke. If you want to second-hand smoke a carton of cigs...just go out in the front of the hotel during GaryCon and breathe the fresh air. You'll see big names like Wampler, chain smoking it up for his next DCC game.

[blackprinceofmuncie]

Frank has been working on this project for a while.

Is this something that he was working on while he was involved with Eldritch Enterprises? By the way, how many of the people who invested $5000 in that fiasco can expect to get their money back? Maybe Frank can start paying them back from the proceeds of this Kickstarter.

[Philotomy Jurament]

Frank has been working on this project for a while.

Is this something that he was working on while he was involved with Eldritch Enterprises?

I remember Frank talking about (in some forum posts, somewhere) plans to publish it with Eldritch Enterprises, back when that was a thing.

[Kalex the Omen]

Frank has been working on this project for a while.

Is this something that he was working on while he was involved with Eldritch Enterprises? By the way, how many of the people who invested $5000 in that fiasco can expect to get their money back? Maybe Frank can start paying them back from the proceeds of this Kickstarter.

I don't know anything about Eldritch Enterprises except that I bought Lich Dungeon and didn't particularly like it. Frank's work by-and-large though is good and I like it. Was there some kind of Kickstarter for EE?

[blackprinceofmuncie]

Was there some kind of Kickstarter for EE?

No Kickstarter that I recall, just the offer to let people in on the ground floor of the soon-to-be hyper-successful publishing powerhouse called Eldritch Enterprises for the low, low price of $5000. The offer was posted on various OSR-oriented sites about the same time that Tim Kask and Frank were asking on Dragonsfoot for someone to build an EE website for free.

I'm not sure how many people took Tim and Frank up on their generous offer. I suspect not very many. With at least one $10,000 investor in the current KS effort, I suspect Frank has already been more successful in raising money this time than he was previously.

:edit to add:

Was able to find the post I was thinking of on DF ca. 2009 (see below). Interestingly, a lot of the content sounds very similar to Frank's current KS pitch. Even the total funding level Frank quotes ($250K) matches up. I guess he has been working on this idea for quite some time.

A Preliminary Letter to All Interested
(emphasis on Preliminary; chill, dude)

Nothing's ready. Nothing's cast in stone. Things are still coming together.
HOWEVER, even at this early date, I'm willing to say a couple of things on the record.

* Who’s Involved *

The core group isn't finalized but will probably be

Frank Mentzer (same name hereabouts, ExTSR elsewhere on the 'net),
Jim Ward (JamesMWard),
Tim Kask (Kaskoid), and
Chris Clark (ForgeMeister)
...and I'm hoping to add Harold Johnson (years and years at TSR, co-author of Tamoachan, fabulous at production & art coordination, etc)... tho he doesn't hang out at DF. Yet.

(Cripes, we haven't even decided on the company name yet. Unlax, something will come up soon; maybe Old School Games or something like that, who knows...)

* Scope *

We want to publish new and innovative OGL products with an Old School approach (defined for the moment as rules-light, very dependent on DM quality, heavy on innovation & enjoyment), addressing many different OGL-based game systems, including BFRP, Savage Worlds (Pinnacle), Hackmaster (Kenzer), Castles & Crusades (Troll Lords), and Pathfinder (Paizo).

We would like to include OSRIC (Ronin Arts), Labyrinth Lord (Goblinoid) and RuneQuest (Mongoose) but haven't talked with them yet about permissions. The first two are very probable; we'll see about Mongoose.

It appears that Lejendary Adventures is off the table for now, not part of the lineup. (Don't go there. We'd LIKE to support L.A., but...)

If you think we should consider OTHER games to add to this lineup, please suggest which.

btw, I would also LOVE to print some of the 'way kewl stuff available for (free) download right here, to broaden the exposure. I'll talk to Steve and company about that, tho.


* You *

The important part... some of you are saying 'what can I do?'
(Besides buy stuff, which will be supremely important but comes later.)

We'll write a lot of stuff. We want yours too... if you're good enough. Adventures, settings large & small, low level or medium or high, whatever. Got an idea for something nobody's ever done? We'd love to see it.

At the moment all such submissions should be brief outlines, mere sketches, via email. We'll be implementing the usual legal documents soon, which will provide absolute protection for both you and us. If you'd rather wait before you say a word, fine; hold off. Meanwhile, I promise that anything we get in advance of that formal stuff will be handled ethically; after 30 years in the biz I certainly know better than to get into ownership fights. (Except for the creation of RPGs as a class of games, no single idea in this vein has ever been worth stealing; the legal costs are too high. It's simple pragmatism.)

Specifics about YOU

1. Do you play? First and foremost we need GAMERS -- volunteers who know the game systems listed above. We'll need folks to take a product we give you and stat it for the system. (We're good but we don't know all about those great games, not like YOU do.)

We already have volunteers for some. Want to get in? Tell me which games you can cover. Ideally we'll escalate, on the basis of the quality of your work, to actually paying you (wowie zowie!). You could even become our Lead Agent for a given system, and end up working with the original publisher/authors too, as our intermediary. But that's all tasty bait for down the road... early on it'll be volunteer, for our gratitude. We'll remember it.

2. Do you write? We’ll need PRODUCT submissions at some point, despite having some pretty heavy hitters on the core team. Until the money starts flowing there are limits on how much time we can put in. (Hey, we got families and debts and stuff too, like everybody.) Now for THIS gig you gotta be REALLY good, pro-published if at all possible, self-published maybe. Do NOT send me samples (or products) yet... but this one's not very far off.

3. Do you draw? We'll need publishable ART. B&W interiors don't have to be great but they have to be related and, in the beginning, have to be cheap too. We'll have to pay full rates for covers, to get quality, but this is (again) an opportunity for as-yet-undiscovered artists with potential. Hang in there through the slim startup and you could be riding high with a backlog within a year or so. Contact me if you have a portfolio to show. Do NOT send me samples yet, but again, we'll need some of this fairly soon (within 6 months).

4. Do you geek? We'll need TECH advice. There's so much going on at or near the leading edge of technology that we need advice... what's hot, what's out/old, what's coming... tips (or even actual coding) on website design... the whole shebang. Same story as authors & artists, tho... we can't pay what you're worth in the beginning, but it could be a helluva ride.

5. Are you overseas? We'll need EUROPE & Australia. (Surprise!) I'm gonna need helpers in a dozen countries to develop contacts with publishers, authors & artists, distribution, everything. (Translators too of course, tho that's usually a paid gig, as we can afford it; but if I use a stock translator who's a non-gamer I'll sure need you to double-check their work.) I seem to have a lot of fans sprinkled around Europe and Oz, and I'm not about to ignore you. On the contrary; a lot of you got started on my D&D Basic set (in your own native Italian or Swedish or whatever), and I think that gives me (us) an edge in this regard.

6. Are you well-off? We'll need MONEY! Yeah, this is the ugly part. We're nowhere near ready to start collecting cash (haven't even completed the corporate filings yet), but here's what I'd LIKE to have:

a. Major investors in blocks of 5,000 $US, for which you'll get preferred (dividend-paying) stock. (I really want to keep company control, which is a different type of stock, and I don't care about dividend income.) Realistically we'll need at least a quarter mil (which is only 50 blocks) to stoke the base financial engine. I already know 30+ well-off folks who can afford it. Did I miss you? Talk to me.

b. Minor "XP" investors; give us a buck ( 1 $US) and get 1 XP in the company. This isn't shares, and it sure isn't expensive; it's a lesser category, basically loaning us a little money, and conveys no actual ownership. (Still gotta flesh out the legalities but it seems that it'll work.) So you -- yeah, YOU, really -- could be a part of making this happen. Every little bit helps.

Thus, if you're interested and able to buy one or more Blocks ($5k @) once the paper is ready, please do let me know asap, and we'll stay in touch. (Do NOT get into Blocks if $5k is A Lot Of Money to you. Of course it's Meaningful, but is it A Lot? Then don't go there.)

And don't worry about the second category yet, and for pete's sake do NOT send me a check yet. I'll let you know when it's time to pony up. (General pledges are non-binding but they help in planning; signed pledges we'll be counting on. You won't have to come up with a penny until you like the corporate framework & documentation.)


CC (concluding caveat): things are kinda crazy here at the moment; word has gotten out and a lot of folks want my time (often because they want jobs, sigh, so I'm saying No a lot). So:

Contact me (Frank Mentzer) at the below addy only if it's about these topics.
Use my regular gamer addy (ExTSR@aol) for other gamer stuff.

The special and temporary Email addy (for this project only) is:

GamesOfAmerica@aol.com


Hope to hear from ya.

Frank