Frank Mentzer's Empyrea Fantasy Setting on KS

[Juju EyeBall]

Maybe the reason it hasn't happened before is because it's not necessary.

[Kalex the Omen]

Maybe the reason it hasn't happened before is because it's not necessary.

Very little in life is necessary. We get it, you hate new material for OSR systems. Maybe you could post again and tell us how you don't understand it. We haven't heard that one for a couple of hours at least.

[Juju EyeBall]

What I really don't like is people trying to blow smoke up my ass that I should be interested in this because they are. I'll level with you, I think the art they've shown so far looks like shit and with nothing else to go on there's no reason to even think twice about paying for something that is guaranteed to gather dust on my shelf.

[Kalex the Omen]

What I really don't like is people trying to blow smoke up my ass that I should be interested in this because they are. I'll level with you, I think the art they've shown so far looks like shit and with nothing else to go on there's no reason to even think twice about paying for something that is guaranteed to gather dust on my shelf.

And you're entitled to your opinion, but it just seems like a little bit more than that. You don't have to be geeking out the way I am over the list of associated names, and I'm not even asking you to back it at any level. Just seems like lots of vitriol for someone who wants to emphasize that they really couldn't care less.

[Juju EyeBall]

Look at this:


Is this a joke?

It's bad.

[T. Foster]

This isn't a product for us. It's for fans of late 80s-early 90s TSR. Which is a little odd because Frank was actually at TSR during that period, but I guess he wishes he was?

[Kalex the Omen]

Look at this:


Is this a joke?

It's bad.

I have no idea where that originally came from. Do you? Frank made a request from any of his players over the years to contact him a couple of months ago. I could see it having something to do with that. Do you think that maybe a 12 year old computer artist who played with Frank 25 years ago made that, and Frank wanted to show it?

Still you have a right to your opinion, but I doubt you don't care. You seem to be negatively invested.

[T. Foster]

I have no idea where that originally came from. Do you? Frank made a request from any of his players over the years to contact him a couple of months ago. I could see it having something to do with that. Do you think that maybe a 12 year old computer artist who played with Frank 25 years ago made that, and Frank wanted to show it?

Still you have a right to your opinion, but I doubt you don't care. You seem to be negatively invested.

Umm, that piece is very clearly signed "Ogmios," who is one of the professional "staff" artists whose involvement Frank is touting, and whose site (featuring tons of other art in that same style) is linked on the KS page. But your readiness to jump through mental hoops to create elaborate excuse/explanations (see also: hacking) is well noted

If you actually were in Frank's employ and personally invested in this venture your desperately sycophantic behavior would at least make sense (if not being any less annoying), but the fact that you're apparently just a self-motivated fan doing all of this "on spec" in apparent hopes of gaining the great Frank's attention is really pathetic and embarrassing. I assume this project will fund - I hope you're as happy with the result as you expect to be, and for your sake I hope Frank rewards your loyalty by throwing some work your way - but at this point nothing you say is going to make me (or, I'm guessing, anyone else here) any more interested in this.

[Juju EyeBall]

Look at this:


Is this a joke?

It's bad.

I have no idea where that originally came from. Do you? Frank made a request from any of his players over the years to contact him a couple of months ago. I could see it having something to do with that. Do you think that maybe a 12 year old computer artist who played with Frank 25 years ago made that, and Frank wanted to show it?

Still you have a right to your opinion, but I doubt you don't care. You seem to be negatively invested.

I think it looks amateur and does little to support the claim of a team of professionals being involved. If it's not part of the product they shouldn't use it. If it is, then it's not up to snuff by any stretch goal of the imagination.

[Guy Fullerton]

I only track some of the rpg kickstarters, but from among those, here are some comparables, in terms of funding (within a few multipliers) or backer count (ditto), not including the minis ones:

2012 Apr 7: Random Dungeon Generator as a Dungeon Map
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/204 ... ungeon-map
$27789 / 1098

2012 Apr 14: Dwimmermount
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aut ... immermount
$48756 / 1023

2012 Jul 02: Rappan Athuk (Frog God Games, for both S&W and Pathfinder)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fro ... ppan-athuk
$246541 / 1003

2012 Sep 17: Numenera by Monte Cook
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14 ... monte-cook
$517255 / 4658

2012 Sep 30: Horror on the Orient Express: Call of Cthulhu by Chaosium
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/44 ... publicatio
$207804 / 1374

2013 Jan 24: Razor Coast (Frog God Games, for both S&W and Pathfinder)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fr ... azor-coast
$123336 / 709

2013 Feb 05: Deluxe Tunnels & Trolls
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/99 ... and-trolls
$125440 / 1638

2013 Jun 28: Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/44 ... th-edition
$561836 / 3668

2013 Jul 11: Deep Magic: A Tome of New Spells for Pathfinder RPG
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/35 ... finder-rpg
$126031 / 1927

2014 Apr 23: City State of the Invincible Overlord (for JG Universal and Pathfinder)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ju ... e-overlord
$85130 / 965

2014 Apr 27: Metamorphosis Alpha Deluxe Hardcover Collector's Edition (Goodman Games)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14 ... lectors-ed
$83264 / 624

2014 May 04: The Lost Lands: The Lost City of Barakus (Frog God Games, for both S&W and Pathfinder)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fr ... of-barakus
$57458 / 991

2014 Jun 02: Castles & Crusades (Troll Lord Games)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/67 ... d-crusades
$83573 / 685

2014 Aug 11: Dungeon Crawl Classics: Peril on the Purple Planet
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14 ... ple-planet
$61378 / 807

2014 Sep 04: Necromancer Games: Back for 5th Edition! (5e released 2014 Jul 3) (Frog God Games)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ne ... th-edition
$63937 / 636

2014 Oct 17: Southlands: New Fantasy Options for Pathfinder RPG
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/35 ... finder-rpg
$97728 / 1044

2014 Oct 18: Feng Shui 2: Action Movie Roleplaying Game by Robin D. Laws
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/at ... e-by-robin
$185137 / 3402

2015 Oct 2: The Lost Lands: The Northlands Saga Complete (Frog God Games, for both S&W and Pathfinder)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fr ... a-complete
$72,981 / 442

2015 Nov 16: The Lost Lands: Borderland Provinces (Frog God Games, for both S&W and Pathfinder and 5th edition)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fr ... -provinces
$68,580 / 728

2015 Nov 24: DCC RPG 4th Printing (Goodman)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14 ... h-printing
$215369 / 2259

2016 Jan 18: The Lost Lands: The Blight - Richard Pett's Crooked City (Frog God Games, for both S&W and Pathfinder and 5th edition)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fr ... crooked-ci
$121,301 / 795

2016 Apr 6: Judges Guild Deluxe Collector's Edition (Goodman)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14 ... rs-edition
$115,112 / 874

2016 Jun 19: Mutant Crawl Classics RPG (Goodman)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14 ... pg-mcc-rpg
$206,806 / 2311

2016 Jul 8: The Lost Lands: Bard's Gate for 5E, Pathfinder, and S&W! (Frog God Games)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fr ... der-and-sa
$81,161 / 726

2016 Aug 25: ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gr ... rilous-rpg
$61743 / 1265

2016 Sep 18: Villains and Vigilantes™ 3.0: The Mighty Protectors™ RPG
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/je ... protectors
$45198 / 879

2016 Nov 6: Swords & Wizardry Complete Rulebook 3rd Printing
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fr ... d-printing
$45609 / 1213

2016 Nov 20: Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea 2E
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/18 ... perborea-0
$67856 / 897

(I'm sure I missed some major data points on other kickstarters.)


If Empyrea were a standalone game, it's probably a sure thing to fund at $250,000. Few settings (or big module) kickstarters get that kind of number or backer count though. It will be interesting to watch whether the many-system and many-names approach draws the necessary ~3300 backers (assuming an average of $70-75 per backer). You can make guesses at how many backers will come from the different systems based on the above data points.

[Melan]

Now that's informative. I am pretty sure none of them started with a minimum $250k funding goal. And even so, the only ones to approach or break that limit have been

• Rappan Athuk (Frog God Games, for both S&W and Pathfinder) at $246k: established publisher with proven KS track record, expansion of well-known product
• Numenera by Monte Cook at $517k: Monte's still a gaming superstar, with a proven KS track record and a dedicated, active fanbase.
• Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition at $561k: Yeah, it's Call of Cthulhu

Even DCC RPG, a game with a large and pretty crazy fanbase only got $215k. The only way I can see this fund if Frank uses his network of contacts to drum up some serious press and bring in a whole lot of outsiders (I suppose the wealthy collectors are already in ). Kudos if he does it, because it means he will do something many-many people have tried and failed.

[Guy Fullerton]

The Rappan Athuk one had mitigating circumstances: Lots of add-ons (previously published hardcovers) inflated the numbers. (At least a couple of the Frog God ones had this effect.)

I suspect the 3300 backers are represented in the above. Several hundred from each of 10 systems. It could be tight though.

[Kalex the Omen]

I have no idea where that originally came from. Do you? Frank made a request from any of his players over the years to contact him a couple of months ago. I could see it having something to do with that. Do you think that maybe a 12 year old computer artist who played with Frank 25 years ago made that, and Frank wanted to show it?

Still you have a right to your opinion, but I doubt you don't care. You seem to be negatively invested.

Umm, that piece is very clearly signed "Ogmios," who is one of the professional "staff" artists whose involvement Frank is touting, and whose site (featuring tons of other art in that same style) is linked on the KS page. But your readiness to jump through mental hoops to create elaborate excuse/explanations (see also: hacking) is well noted

If you actually were in Frank's employ and personally invested in this venture your desperately sycophantic behavior would at least make sense (if not being any less annoying), but the fact that you're apparently just a self-motivated fan doing all of this "on spec" in apparent hopes of gaining the great Frank's attention is really pathetic and embarrassing. I assume this project will fund - I hope you're as happy with the result as you expect to be, and for your sake I hope Frank rewards your loyalty by throwing some work your way - but at this point nothing you say is going to make me (or, I'm guessing, anyone else here) any more interested in this.

I'm not trying to get you interested in this project. Your bias was clear from the outset. You and DD just seem unusually invested against this project for some reason, your protests to the contrary notwithstanding. And Frank doesn't come here, so I don't expect he will ever see my words on K&KA. You're barking up the wrong tree.

[Kalex the Omen]

I think it looks amateur and does little to support the claim of a team of professionals being involved. If it's not part of the product they shouldn't use it. If it is, then it's not up to snuff by any stretch goal of the imagination.

I stand corrected (see upstream). I still think it looks like a piece of 1990s computer art and maybe that is the charm Frank sees. I don't think it is bad. I think it is a style that is different than the norm. I'm not sure I would commission that illustrator, but I can't say I wouldn't either. It would depend a lot on the project and if I thought the piece would fit.

[Kalex the Omen]

If Empyrea were a standalone game, it's probably a sure thing to fund at $250,000. Few settings (or big module) kickstarters get that kind of number or backer count though. It will be interesting to watch whether the many-system and many-names approach draws the necessary ~3300 backers (assuming an average of $70-75 per backer). You can make guesses at how many backers will come from the different systems based on the above data points.

Thanks Guy! Interesting. I think Frank is being ambitious, but I still have hope it will fund. If not, no skin lost in the game for me.

Do you have a CH topic somewhere hereabouts? I'd love to find out if you guys have got anything new in the works.