The Importance of the "TSR Style" in Retro-Clone Publishing

[robertsconley]

I think minimalist covers are the way to go but the hardest to design. This is my attempt for a Traveller Project
http://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/ ... 0Cover.png

[AxeMental]

For a cover, I prefer a painting (done with real paint on canvas, or colored pencil, even pastels if you have the talent, if its made on a computer and I can tell I'll pass) that focuses on the setting (it should be somewhat mysterious in places) that shows the character doing the stuff they would be doing in the game (exploring an entrance carved in the form of a giant mouth, fighting a group of trolls -blowing the living fuck out of them with magic missiles lightning and such, a line of fighters getting eaten. A cover should help identify the game, the modules setting and the fun the player will have when they play it. Theres alot of flexibility in there (look at the variety of artist and themes in the TSR modules for instance, and that was one company).

I haven't played traveler but if its like 1E, as a buyer I'd want to see something to draw me in. You know, action, some cool space ships, some neat location that looks like fun to explore. But thats just me. That said, I am a minimalist in design. All good paintings are a few large shapes well balanced and interesting in placement. The subject matter is worked into that. Frezetta was a master at this (when it came to fantasy).

[Philotomy Jurament]

For a cover, I prefer a painting...that focuses on the setting...that shows the character doing the stuff they would be doing in the game...I haven't played traveler but...I'd want to see something to draw me in. You know, action, some cool space ships, some neat location that looks like fun to explore.

Normally, I agree. But there are exceptions. For example, consider these two covers (click for larger images) for the same sci-fi game:



I prefer the first (starfield) cover, even though the second cover features action and characters doing stuff they would be doing in the game.

[AxeMental]

I think if the cover makes you want to play (draws you in) its going to be most effective. The first one does that the second I consider pretty bad for alot of reasons (the first is an endless sea of possibility (reminds me of Carl Sagan's Cosmos cover) the second just not my favorite composition, and those look a bit like 3E elves or something? And is that a "Land shark" (from Saturday Night Live" in space done by a 3E hack?). I've seen good space themed stuff, but perhaps anything with images of particular locations or ships is too limiting for a game where it depends on your imagination (like I said, haven't played Traveler). Also, the taste of the artist and publisher is critical (you can have the most talented artist in the world, but if they create 3E or 2E shit (rad elves with tattoos, or stiff posed "family photo portrait paintings" figures, well that only make it worse (notice how 3E hid all that shitty artwork inside neutral covers...the smartest marketing move WOTC ever made). Some that I think are better just from a quick goolge search.





I think those are Frazetta but there are better examples I'll dig up when I can remember.

[thedungeondelver]

Vallejo's spacecraft were always cool looking. The covers of some of Saberhagen's Berserker novels are good too.

[AxeMental]

Oh yeah, just remembered the guy: Stuart Cowley, and his series of illustrated books on spaceships (following some galactic war). These books for the most part ROCKED and were copied endlessly (though I think he didn't get much credit). If you want to design a scifi module cover for Traveler, maybe these might be cool inspiration (rather then no artwork). But then again, maybe Traveler isn't about this sort of exploration and adventure.

[grodog]

Oh yeah, just remembered the guy: Stuart Cowley, and his series of illustrated books on spaceships (following some galactic war). These books for the most part ROCKED and were copied endlessly (though I think he didn't get much credit).

I never knew the Terran Trade Authority books, but did know and own a few of Cowley's Galactic Encounters books (which, IIRC, I was given by my godfather, who really helped to broaden my interests in SF and fantasy---he gave me my first Dune books, for example, and I inherited many of his books as a teenager when he died young, including many PBOs by Farmer): Cowley definitely shaped my images of SF strongly (moreso in the Dune vein than the Star Wars vein).

[Kramer]

This thread got me thinking about other ways we could design RPG books. I came up with a relatively minimalist-looking one here.

I actually think your stab is quite a good go at long document design; and I do not find Palatino to be at all offensive or inappropriate. Indeed, there was a time in my career where everything was Palatino and Helvetic. [...did I just say that out loud?...]

These days I am using Myriad Pro and Minion quite a lot (they both display in print and online quite nicely).

Before that, it was Garamond and Franklin Gothic.

When you find something that works, you tend to stick with it...whether you mean to or not.

[Kramer]

For a cover, I prefer a painting (done with real paint on canvas, or colored pencil, even pastels if you have the talent, if its made on a computer and I can tell I'll pass) that focuses on the setting...

Believe me, if I could paint, I would. If I could afford a painter, I would do that too. And a cover especially has to have color artwork. Which are all reasons I do what I do for cover art (Photoshopped pen-and-ink). I have about $75 ($100) max that I budget for covers.

[Vile]

I'm all for minimalist layout in gaming books. Whether or not the modern full-colour page border thing works as a marketing tool or not, it definitely does not help in terms of clarity. I look at game books as technical manuals, and the key there is to be clear and easily referenced. At the table you have to flick back-and-forth so tables and rules have to jump out without too much other stuff to distract you. But this relates to content, where I do think that the standard set by Moldvay has never been eaten (although the font choice was debatable). As far as covers go, which I think is what the OP is about, TSR style works as a brand recognition and nostalgia tool which is probably not a bad thing given the size of the old gamer market. It may not be drawing in the new crowd, but I doubt if most OSR publishers have the time or budget to effectively advertise to that segment anyway. Much better to let the oldsters draw in new blood by example (or breeding, which seems to be happening a lot judging by a lot of posts on the intertubes these days).

[Kramer]

I think, Vile, that those glossy coated, decorative bordered books are appealing to the video game crowd; a topic that has been covered ad-nausea. But you are right; a game manual is first and foremost an instructional tome, and navigation, dissemination of information, and reader comprehension/retention must be foremost in the mind of the designer. I feel that all publications from Wizards (and Paizo, who is competing with Wizards for our attention) do not address those issues at all. Their only concerns seem to be centered on eye-candy.

[Philotomy Jurament]

These days I am using Myriad Pro and Minion quite a lot (they both display in print and online quite nicely).

Before that, it was Garamond and Franklin Gothic.

Have you used Gentium? For a free font it seems impressive, to me, but I'm curious what a professional would think of it.

[Benoist]

Nobody wants to buy my work, Axe.

Not true. We can talk some more about it if you want. You know where to find me.

[Benoist]

For better or for worse, Ernie and I have our own style.

I put this preview together for Gary Con and, short on time and funds, came up with this (I always loved Gustave Doré, and both illos are appropriate, the front cover depicting a major NPC in the preview, and the back both a situation and mood relevant to it):





So, you can see both the tradition with the "First edition compatible" mention in the corner and all, the classic aspect through the illos and BW color scheme, but that isn't something TSR would have ever come up with for its own early products I think.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Could we refocus this thread on the trade dress, please?