T. Foster wrote:the third book really ratchets up the anti-religious rhetoric, to the point of flat-out declaring God and religion the source of all the world's ills, and that it's the duty of good/enlightened people to struggle against and destroy them. Not an earth-shaking sentiment, but surprising/troubling in a book ostensibly intended for children
I hope this doesn't border on breaking rules, but I must say I don't see why that's "troubling."
Anyway, personally I've been going through The Hobbit again, and occasionally I read bits of The Blackstone Chronicles (okay that's horror, but its good). I'm thinking of picking up The Mark of Zorro and some Lovecraft soon, as well.
JamesEightBitStar wrote:I hope this doesn't border on breaking rules, but I must say I don't see why that's "troubling."
It's troubling to parents who don't want their children reading that sort of thing. It's not like the books have warnings on the outside, and people don't always check (reading reviews, etc.) before they buy.
[url=http://www.pied-piper-publishing.com/]Pied Piper Publishing - Rob Kuntz's Pathways to Enchantment[/url]
JamesEightBitStar wrote:I hope this doesn't border on breaking rules, but I must say I don't see why that's "troubling."
It's troubling to parents who don't want their children reading that sort of thing. It's not like the books have warnings on the outside, and people don't always check (reading reviews, etc.) before they buy.
Yeah, without derailing this thread into prohibited territory I'll just say that I agree with the above -- it's not that the ideas themselves are so troubling (at least to me) as the fact that parents who might not want their children exposed to such ideas (again, without debating the merits of this attitude) might not realize what these books are "about" until it's too late. In a book marketed towards adults, anything goes, but in a book marketed to children I'd think it would behoove the publisher to be a little more up-front so parents could better know what it is they're giving to their children.
The Mystical Trash Heap - blog about D&D and other 80s pop-culture The Heroic Legendarium - my book of 1E-compatible rules expansions and modifications, now available for sale at DriveThruRPG
FWIW IIRC Pullman is pretty up-front about what he tried to do with his books. It's just that most people probably aren't going to read about the books before they read them or give them to their children. And I think a publisher is unlikely to do as Foster suggests.
Upon further reading I do not know if Pullman specifically tried to create an anti-Narnia. But he did say the following about the "Chronicles of Narnia":
It is monumentally disparaging of girls and women. It is blatantly racist. One girl was sent to hell because she was getting interested in clothes and boys.
None of which, of course, is true.
[url=http://www.pied-piper-publishing.com/]Pied Piper Publishing - Rob Kuntz's Pathways to Enchantment[/url]
It is monumentally disparaging of girls and women. It is blatantly racist. One girl was sent to hell because she was getting interested in clothes and boys.
None of which, of course, is true.
Indeed. I was like, "Wait, is he reading the same Narnia as me?"
T. Foster wrote:Not sure what will be next up -- due to a recent discussion on ENWorld I've now got all the books I own but haven't read from Gygax's "Inspirational Reading" list in the DMG stacked on a shelf together (there are currently 28 of them), but I've also just acquired a bunch of books from the old Ballantine Adult Fantasy series that are calling out to me, and I also want to read Harry Potter 6 before HP7 is released this summer...
I don't own many books from the Ballantine Adult Fantasy series, it seems (for a full listing, see http://home.epix.net/~wallison/bafs.html). I've read/own many of the authors, but haven't picked them up in the BAF series editions, I guess. It looks like the few that I own from the series are by CAS, Dunsany, Evangeline Walton, Mervyn Peake, and Le Guin.
Aside: interesting that Bob Pepper was the #2 most-prolific cover artist, per http://home.epix.net/~wallison/bafsmisc.html; he's best known for the art for MB's Dark Tower and Dragonmaster games.
Just finished reading Fletcher Pratt's The Blue Star, which was an absolute gem of a book, combining something of the sensibilities of both Dune and The King of Elfland's Daughter -- on the one hand it's a fairy-tale love story, on the other a feat of fictional world-building and political skullduggery. This book is on Gygax's famous list and was also published as part of Ballantine's Adult Fantasy series -- one of very few overlapping titles between those two (Anderson's The Broken Sword and miscellaneous works by Dunsany and Lovecraft are the only others). Fletcher Pratt died fairly young (age 59), only a few years after this book was published, so there are no other books set within this world (which is kind of a shame, since the world definitely seems rich enough to sustain more stories, but might be a blessing as well, considering how many once-promising sf and fantasy series get driven into the ground as the author makes "one more trip back to the well").
I'm not sure exactly what in this novel caused Gygax to recommend it in the DMG, as it isn't part of the action-heavy blood and thunder s&s tradition that most of the books from that list fall into -- perhaps simply the idea of a fantasy world that isn't pseudo-historical or pseudo-medieval, in which gunpowder was never developed and witchcraft/ESP was but which otherwise continued to develop into a post-Renaissance society not all that different in fell, perhaps, from Gygax's own Aerth or Yggsburgh. The absence of Tolkeinisms was welcome, as always, but hardly surprising in this case since this book was published in 1952, before LotR.
So, has anyone else read this book? If so did you enjoy it or did you find it a slow-moving bore (which, alas, I can see -- the print is very small and while there are a couple of "action" scenes I don't recall a single swordfight)? I have no idea if this book is currently in-print or not (my copy was purchased at a second-hand shop several years ago) but either way it's worth seeking out if you like "serious" fantasy.
(And, on the same subject, Pratt's earlier fantasy work in collaboration with L. Sprague de Camp is also very much worth seeking out if you haven't read it already -- much lighter (they're parodies, pretty much) and pulpier, and with a much more obvious/direct influence on both the tone and content of D&D (Gygax, in fact, has consistently singled out de Camp & Pratt as among the "most influential" authors, right alongside Howard, Leiber, Vance, and Merritt).)
Next up I dunno, probably something non-fantasy (since I've read several (mostly unremarkable) fantasy books in a row).
The Mystical Trash Heap - blog about D&D and other 80s pop-culture The Heroic Legendarium - my book of 1E-compatible rules expansions and modifications, now available for sale at DriveThruRPG
I grew up on the de Camp & Pratt "Shea" series. Great stuff. I've also read Pratt's The Well of the Unicorn, which is not easy going by any means but certainly an immortal, brilliant, amazing book. Blue Star is actually quite rare but I hope someday to get a hold of it.
Mainly, I've gotten copies of the Del Rey "Kull" and "Solomon Kane" collections by Howard. I'm thoroughly loving both. The former is something I grew up on and still adore, the latter is new to me but right up my alley. Howard is a giant.
In other news, a week ago, the window of my car was smashed off and my "DM Bag" stolen out of it. Every character, map, sketch, and scrawl from four years of weekly gaming--gone, and worthless to the thief, who was surely disappointed not to find a laptop. Not to mention many modules and rulebooks (many of them signed by Gary); FFC; Chainmail...
So, that sucks.
But, seriously, this game "War of the Ring" is so badass. You should all check it out! Regards.
T. Foster wrote:Yeah, without derailing this thread into prohibited territory I'll just say that I agree with the above -- it's not that the ideas themselves are so troubling (at least to me) as the fact that parents who might not want their children exposed to such ideas (again, without debating the merits of this attitude) might not realize what these books are "about" until it's too late. In a book marketed towards adults, anything goes, but in a book marketed to children I'd think it would behoove the publisher to be a little more up-front so parents could better know what it is they're giving to their children.
I can see how this would be a concern, but then again its kind of a double-edged sword. I mean, the Narnia books don't exactly have a warning label on them that says they're pro-Christian, so the same caveat applies to them too if you, say, want them to grow up Atheist or something.
Though I honestly think trying to excercise THAT kind of control is a little pointless. Kids grow up not because of the parent, but independent of the parent.
Tales of Zothique, Clark Ashton Smith, Necronomicon Press.
Very nice. All the stories are bite-sized and suitable for reading to completion when you don't have a lot of time. Oh yeah, and they're pretty cool, too.
"The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek." - Joseph Campbell
JamesEightBitStar wrote:I can see how this would be a concern, but then again its kind of a double-edged sword. I mean, the Narnia books don't exactly have a warning label on them that says they're pro-Christian, so the same caveat applies to them too if you, say, want them to grow up Atheist or something.
I still don't let my son read C.S. Lewis for that very reason.
A christian school that one of my wife's daughters attended (for a very brief time), banned C.S Lewis from their school library, because he wrote Narnia. The books contained witches and magic and all, dont'cha know.
The enemy of my enemy is my ... friend?
I'd comment further, but we're probably already skirting the edge of forum rules.
"The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek." - Joseph Campbell
The Green Pearl by Jack Vance. I read Lyonesse about a year ago and I enjoyed it so much, I decided not to read all three novels in a row. Like a fine wine to be sipped, not gulped. At once, 5 pages in, and I am again enamo(u)red of Vance.
