Great, more cheap plastic minis with crappy paintjobs. Next thing you know they'll stop casting metal models. GW's been making the move in that direction for quite some time now (towards plastics, that is) and I'd always felt that Reaper was the last bastion of old school metal. I'll be watching this one with fear in my heart, and I'm praying that Reaper doesn't begin cutting that which makes them great.
- Wheggi
Reaper Miniatures; Dark Heaven Figures!
Moderator: Falconer
The Twisting Stair
An old school role-playing game periodical with a focus on adventure design
Stephen Colbert: “What would you do, when coming up with your character you roll six rolls of three six-sided dice to come up with your character”
Joe Magliano: “There’s a new way now where you roll 4d6 and you take away the lowest.”
Stephen Colbert: “Really? That’s for children!”
An old school role-playing game periodical with a focus on adventure design
Stephen Colbert: “What would you do, when coming up with your character you roll six rolls of three six-sided dice to come up with your character”
Joe Magliano: “There’s a new way now where you roll 4d6 and you take away the lowest.”
Stephen Colbert: “Really? That’s for children!”
It's great for me, cause I suck at painting. I can do an okay job, but it takes a loooong time (days) for me to paint one mini. I still like metal better than plastic, but considering the monetary and time cost spent in painting, well, you know the old saying about having a champagne taste on a beer budget.
"The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek." - Joseph Campbell
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JRMapes
- Old School Games
- Posts: 1582
- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:41 pm
- Location: S.E. Kansas
- Contact:
Now I understand the downside that I believe is being referenced here.
The move from metal to plastic.
I doubt Reaper will ever move away from metal minis. They are not only the best "old style" mini producer out there-- they know it.
I can see where there would be concern about moving away from metal minis, but frankly put. I don't believe it will happen. As a business decesion opening up a non-blind non-collectable pre-painted plastics line is a great thing as long as they hold to the same detail and quality as their metal lines. I don't want to see the era of the metal mini go away any more than the next guy. I just don't think that is a valid fear when it comes to Reaper.
I could be wrong, it has happened a couple times in the past. But I think I am safe saying that we wont see the Reaper metal lines go away unless or until such time Reaper itself goes away. I also don't think that introducing a plastics line will hasten their departure. I think if anything it will enhance their longevity.
Jerry
The move from metal to plastic.
I doubt Reaper will ever move away from metal minis. They are not only the best "old style" mini producer out there-- they know it.
I can see where there would be concern about moving away from metal minis, but frankly put. I don't believe it will happen. As a business decesion opening up a non-blind non-collectable pre-painted plastics line is a great thing as long as they hold to the same detail and quality as their metal lines. I don't want to see the era of the metal mini go away any more than the next guy. I just don't think that is a valid fear when it comes to Reaper.
I could be wrong, it has happened a couple times in the past. But I think I am safe saying that we wont see the Reaper metal lines go away unless or until such time Reaper itself goes away. I also don't think that introducing a plastics line will hasten their departure. I think if anything it will enhance their longevity.
Jerry
[color=red][b]UPDATED[/b][/color] [size=75][url=http://jrmapes.livejournal.com/][b]The Web Between Worlds[/b][/url] - My LiveJournal - Personal and Gaming News.
IMTU: JR Mapes 0309 C38A975-D S tc++(**) ru+ tm+ !tn t4 tg- t20 !rtt ?t5 ge+ 3i++ c+ jt- au ls+ pi+ ta- he+ kk+ hi++ as++ va dr so+ zh da++ vi+ 633
[color=yellow]TRAVELLER INFLUENCE[/color]: "No other rpg except D&D has influenced current gaming more than Classic Traveller." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GROGNARD GEARHEADS[/color]:"Building anything for Traveller is a blast. Just make sure you've got a spreadsheet and a college education. Traveller is built for REAL MEN. There's none of that freeform prose for pussies you'll see in other games." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]THE DUNGEON GESTALT[/color] - D&D is primal fetishism. It makes relics out of old character sheets and totems out of a stack of hardback rulebooks. The dungeon crawl itself is a ritual with no obligation to make sense beyond the circle of participants. In that sense, it's a lot like a cave painting of some ancient hunt. It's a convergence of random events in a controlled setting that forms the basis of a heroic tale in the minds of the participants. Powerful and primitive social magic that can't be reliably explained but only experienced. And IMO, a much more 'real' experience than the forced plot you see in most 'storyteller' games. [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GAMING-Back To The Basics[/color]:"It was a helluva romp in the 70s. The choices were D&D in the white box, Traveller in the black box, or if we wanted something really bizarre, Empire of the Petal Throne in the colourful box! ...You know... it's stunning. Between them, those three games cover so much ground, everything since has been footnotes and elaborations." [i]- pyratejohn[/i]
[url=http://knights-n-knaves.com/][b]Knights & Knaves[/b][/url] OD&D/AD&D/Traveller/Battletech/
[/size]
IMTU: JR Mapes 0309 C38A975-D S tc++(**) ru+ tm+ !tn t4 tg- t20 !rtt ?t5 ge+ 3i++ c+ jt- au ls+ pi+ ta- he+ kk+ hi++ as++ va dr so+ zh da++ vi+ 633
[color=yellow]TRAVELLER INFLUENCE[/color]: "No other rpg except D&D has influenced current gaming more than Classic Traveller." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GROGNARD GEARHEADS[/color]:"Building anything for Traveller is a blast. Just make sure you've got a spreadsheet and a college education. Traveller is built for REAL MEN. There's none of that freeform prose for pussies you'll see in other games." [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]THE DUNGEON GESTALT[/color] - D&D is primal fetishism. It makes relics out of old character sheets and totems out of a stack of hardback rulebooks. The dungeon crawl itself is a ritual with no obligation to make sense beyond the circle of participants. In that sense, it's a lot like a cave painting of some ancient hunt. It's a convergence of random events in a controlled setting that forms the basis of a heroic tale in the minds of the participants. Powerful and primitive social magic that can't be reliably explained but only experienced. And IMO, a much more 'real' experience than the forced plot you see in most 'storyteller' games. [i]- Kellri[/i]
[color=yellow]GAMING-Back To The Basics[/color]:"It was a helluva romp in the 70s. The choices were D&D in the white box, Traveller in the black box, or if we wanted something really bizarre, Empire of the Petal Throne in the colourful box! ...You know... it's stunning. Between them, those three games cover so much ground, everything since has been footnotes and elaborations." [i]- pyratejohn[/i]
[url=http://knights-n-knaves.com/][b]Knights & Knaves[/b][/url] OD&D/AD&D/Traveller/Battletech/
[/size]
Remember that plastics are cheaper material wise than metals are, but more often than not the manufacturer will charge the same. Therefore mini companies stand to make more money from plastics than metals. Also, the latest technology in miniture sculpting allows the artists to do it all on computer, which will make "hands-on" sculpting obsolete for the big miniture companies. While I'll need to research it, I don't think that computer sculpting can be done with pewter, only plastics. I know that the most recent GW giant was sculpted on computer, and many are seeing it as the wave of the future.
Oh, and check this out: plastics are popular with many people in the hobby because they are easier to convert. IMHO this is its only redeeming trait, but it is not enough of one to swing me into the plastics camp. As someone who paints and converts I really like plastic bits, but want the main body of my model to be a solid metal piece of art.
On top of that, people are prone to buy minis quicker if they don't have to invest the time to paint them. Kids fall into this catagory, and the 12-year old market is a gigantic one.
Hopefully Reaper will keep its old school heart and not do what GW did: switch all of its models to plastic with the exception of some characters.
- Wheggi
Oh, and check this out: plastics are popular with many people in the hobby because they are easier to convert. IMHO this is its only redeeming trait, but it is not enough of one to swing me into the plastics camp. As someone who paints and converts I really like plastic bits, but want the main body of my model to be a solid metal piece of art.
On top of that, people are prone to buy minis quicker if they don't have to invest the time to paint them. Kids fall into this catagory, and the 12-year old market is a gigantic one.
Hopefully Reaper will keep its old school heart and not do what GW did: switch all of its models to plastic with the exception of some characters.
- Wheggi
The Twisting Stair
An old school role-playing game periodical with a focus on adventure design
Stephen Colbert: “What would you do, when coming up with your character you roll six rolls of three six-sided dice to come up with your character”
Joe Magliano: “There’s a new way now where you roll 4d6 and you take away the lowest.”
Stephen Colbert: “Really? That’s for children!”
An old school role-playing game periodical with a focus on adventure design
Stephen Colbert: “What would you do, when coming up with your character you roll six rolls of three six-sided dice to come up with your character”
Joe Magliano: “There’s a new way now where you roll 4d6 and you take away the lowest.”
Stephen Colbert: “Really? That’s for children!”
-
thedungeondelver
- Intergalactic demander
- Posts: 9798
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:40 am
- Location: ameriʞa
Let me tell you this:
If Reaper is successful and skims enough of the Hasbro DDM fanbase, then Hasbro will respond by cutting the price, and going to non-random sets to regain that profit. The result will be that the DDM fanboys will come running back to mama Hasborg and leave Reaper with an assload of minis they can't sell.
Secondly, I keep hearing how this won't negatively impact metal minis - how in the hell is that going to happen? It's like reaper has decided "Hey, I wanna be two feet taller so I'll cut my head off and stand on it." Simple economics: reaper has three minis lines consisting of Warlord, CAV and Dark Heaven. That's three big pieces of pie. Add another product line and where is that piece of pie going to come from? Suddenly you can't have 33.3% for each line (I know that's a simplification but bear with me). Now each line is going to get 25% of your budget - and let's face it, the new baby needs a lot of attention to survive and flourish. REaper isn't going to do this halfway, they'll throw a LOT of money at this project.
That money is going to come out of metal minis. I don't care what they're telling the hoi-palloi that money is GOING to come out of the pocket of the three metal brothers of this plastic upstart! It has to! And that means less money spent on the metal minis!
Now tell me how that's not a negative impact! Tell me how dropping the amount produced, the amount distributed, the amount pushed and promoted, how that's a good thing! You can't! It isn't!
THIS IS NOT GOOD.
I've heard a RAINBOW of silly suggestions about how Reaper's going to pull this off. Oh maybe they streamlined things. Maybe they've been saving up funds for years to do this. Hey, maybe Sandra Garrity and Werner Klocke found a bunch of spare change in their couches and brought it in to the office in a big plastic water jug!
Nosir, they can't rob peter to pay paul, they can't stretch the pipe, and they can't empty the hole halfway. This is the beginning of the end folks, I Honestly believe it.
If Reaper is successful and skims enough of the Hasbro DDM fanbase, then Hasbro will respond by cutting the price, and going to non-random sets to regain that profit. The result will be that the DDM fanboys will come running back to mama Hasborg and leave Reaper with an assload of minis they can't sell.
Secondly, I keep hearing how this won't negatively impact metal minis - how in the hell is that going to happen? It's like reaper has decided "Hey, I wanna be two feet taller so I'll cut my head off and stand on it." Simple economics: reaper has three minis lines consisting of Warlord, CAV and Dark Heaven. That's three big pieces of pie. Add another product line and where is that piece of pie going to come from? Suddenly you can't have 33.3% for each line (I know that's a simplification but bear with me). Now each line is going to get 25% of your budget - and let's face it, the new baby needs a lot of attention to survive and flourish. REaper isn't going to do this halfway, they'll throw a LOT of money at this project.
That money is going to come out of metal minis. I don't care what they're telling the hoi-palloi that money is GOING to come out of the pocket of the three metal brothers of this plastic upstart! It has to! And that means less money spent on the metal minis!
Now tell me how that's not a negative impact! Tell me how dropping the amount produced, the amount distributed, the amount pushed and promoted, how that's a good thing! You can't! It isn't!
THIS IS NOT GOOD.
I've heard a RAINBOW of silly suggestions about how Reaper's going to pull this off. Oh maybe they streamlined things. Maybe they've been saving up funds for years to do this. Hey, maybe Sandra Garrity and Werner Klocke found a bunch of spare change in their couches and brought it in to the office in a big plastic water jug!
Nosir, they can't rob peter to pay paul, they can't stretch the pipe, and they can't empty the hole halfway. This is the beginning of the end folks, I Honestly believe it.
"Peace Is Our Profession"
"Relativism is flatfooted, and orthodoxy packs one hell of a punch." - Kellri
"Relativism is flatfooted, and orthodoxy packs one hell of a punch." - Kellri
Jump up my ass, you strange mother fucker.you pretend to be living inside a classic fairy tale
Right now, I buy nearly zero (0), that is nearly zero minis. Why? Because I do not have the time, nor the talent, to paint them to a standard that would make me happy. Okay, I'll buy maybe a couple a year, just cause I think they're cool, and I'll paint 'em
Now, offer pre-painted, non-random, non-blind minis? Hell, I'm going to jump all over that. I don't care if they're plastic, metal, rock or glass.
Reaper's going to be making money off lazy assed people like myself, who are not current customers. That's where your new piece of the pie is coming from. When I buy, I won't be taking money from another line of minis, I'll be all new money. I betcha a darn paycheck I'm not alone either.
As far as metal minis going bye-bye, well, everything else I liked about gaming (board & rpg) is going the way of the Dodo bird, why not metal minis? Maybe they'll become a niche market, just like OD&D and AD&D. Maybe that sucks, but that's life and economics.
Now, offer pre-painted, non-random, non-blind minis? Hell, I'm going to jump all over that. I don't care if they're plastic, metal, rock or glass.
Reaper's going to be making money off lazy assed people like myself, who are not current customers. That's where your new piece of the pie is coming from. When I buy, I won't be taking money from another line of minis, I'll be all new money. I betcha a darn paycheck I'm not alone either.
As far as metal minis going bye-bye, well, everything else I liked about gaming (board & rpg) is going the way of the Dodo bird, why not metal minis? Maybe they'll become a niche market, just like OD&D and AD&D. Maybe that sucks, but that's life and economics.
"The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek." - Joseph Campbell
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Matthew
- Master of the Silver Blade
- Posts: 8049
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:42 pm
- Location: Kanagawa, Japan
- Contact:
Reaper Miniatures are without doubt my favourite company for Dungeons & Dragons; it would be a sad to see the back of their metal line.
[i]It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.[/i]
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa[/i] (1340)
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa[/i] (1340)