Infinite Wishes

[vargr1105]

You had a jerk for a referee, didn't you?

Well I haven't ever had any AD&D1e referees, unless you count the GMs on the PbPs I joined since last year which are the only AD&D1e campaigns I've played. I would hardly classify any of them as "jerks" but the PbP dynamics are so different from tabletop play I don't really think it is fair to make such an assessment in the context of what is being debated here. I have also never used a Wish spell or seen one used in a game, tabletop or PbP. Actually it was only yesterday, after seeing this thread, that I read the Wish spell rules on the PHB for the first time.

Yes, that's exactly what I stated. I don't care about any of the players' enjoyment ever. I wasn't referring to a specific type of play; I was referring to all DMing in general.

No, what I wrote is not exactly what you stated; neither did I claim it was. If you don't believe me go back and read it again, then read your own statement and compare with my own. You will see it is self-evident and crystal-clear they are different and nowhere in my lines is any claim they are the exact equivalent of yours.

Glad I could help.

"Lighten up, Francis. "

I am sorry sir, you seem to be mistaking me for someone called "Francis". I do not reveal my true name on the interwebs but I can assure you with 100% certainty I am not he because that name does not even exist in my native language.

If I could make an appeal, would the rest of our forumites aid Mr. TRP in finding this "Francis" person? I would do it myself but I'm afraid I haven't the foggiest clue who he is, but It does seems the poor fellow is in dire need of lightening up a bit.

Let's go good sirs, let us aid Mr. TRP do a good deed for Francis!

Glad I could help.

[AxeMental]

Varg: "Well I haven't ever had any AD&D1e referees, unless you count the GMs on the PbPs I joined since last year which are the only AD&D1e campaigns I've played. "

For some reason I thought you were a AD&D player. If you've only played a few 1E AD&D games I can see your confusion.

[Steve]

DM-twisting of wishes is to either turn a players greed against him, or smack down anyone warping the fabric of the game. And yes, I think any player who tried to put out a rinse-repeat method of wishes with no side effects is trying to warp the game.

It's not about me ruining the player's game, it's about him ruining everyone else's game with effortless rewards.

Another thing I'd add to the rationale of twisting wishes is that it fits the literature. There are lots of stories about how people try to avoid fate, even using magic and wishes to do so, only to lead to an even worse fate. I'm particularly thinking of The Monkey's Paw.

"Be careful what you wish for, you may receive it."

You have an item/monster that grants wishes. Do you dare to use it?

"Do you feel lucky, punk? Well, do ya?"

[Chainsaw]

Generally speaking, if someone has a "good faith" approach to a wish (i.e., not game breaking), then I'd probably reward them with what they wished for, regardless of their exact wording. If it's something game breaking, then I'm probably more likely to parse the words very carefully and use any opening to pervert the result so that it's not ideal. One good turn deserves another, as they say.

P.S. As to what's game breaking, it would be very situational. No hard and fast rule on this.

[Matthew]

Very much agree with Chainsaw as to that.

[thedungeondelver]

Generally speaking, if someone has a "good faith" approach to a wish (i.e., not game breaking), then I'd probably reward them with what they wished for, regardless of their exact wording. If it's something game breaking, then I'm probably more likely to parse the words very carefully and use any opening to pervert the result so that it's not ideal. One good turn deserves another, as they say.

P.S. As to what's game breaking, it would be very situational. No hard and fast rule on this.

This is basically what I do. If Keebler the Elf Warrior snuffs it and the party is heartbroken and they have access to a wish spell, and want to use it for that purpose, then, yeah. Because then its acting as a Rod of Resurrection.

I ran a game where the party had advanced through G1 and G2 and in G3, Obmi slew their storm giantess companion with his magic hammer - a player with a Ring of Wishes (from the lair of the Remorhaz in G2) said "I wish that hadn't have happened." so I obliged, and the party did for Obmi.

I've never seen someone try the deliberate, game-breaking stunt like "infinite wishes" described in the OP, but I wouldn't sit idly by and let it happen.

Basically, munificent, player aiding things that duplicate either powerful restorative magic or otherwise, yeah, I'm OK with that.

[Premier]

Let's see how we can sink this abomination.

Use a Candle of Invocation to summon a efreet

First problem, the Candle of Invocation only allows you to contact entities who have the same alignment as the candle (not the user!). So, if it's not a Neutral candle, it won't work with efreeti.

Second problem, the Gate spell can only contact a specific being, so "an efreet, any efreet" won't work. You need the specific identity (I would rule the true name) of an efreet, which isn't exactly common information.

Third problem, the spell does not "summon" an entity insofar that it doesn't guarantee that the entity will actually come to the caster. All it does is create a connection to the target plane and attract the target entity's attention. According to the spell's description, the only thing guaranteed is that something will step through. Could be the being contact, could be its servant, could be its friend.

Use a charge from the Rod of Beguiling to make him your friend (no saving throw)

Use your first wish[/quote]

As per the description of the Rod of Beguiling, the victim "will trustingly listen and obey insofar as
communication is possible, and the instruction seems plausible and does
not outwardly consign the beguiled to needless injury or destruction or go
against their nature or alignment".

As per the description of the efreet, "they are not willing servants, and they will seek to pervert the intent of their masters by adhering to the letter of commands".

It seems to me that using its wish-granting power for anyone else's benefit without twisting the wish would "go against their nature", so the Rod will not prevent it from happening.

Use your second wish to recharge the Rod
Use your third wish to create a Candle of Invocation.
Dismiss the Efreet with your thanks.

Even if all the previous barriers were overcome, the beguiling effect would still wear off in less than 1 turn's time, at which point the efreet would very likely start plotting for a very quick revenge.

And *always* remember to add the following to the end of any Wish: "...with the caveat that the consequences of casting this spell will not put me or any of my companions IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM in a worse off condition than we are in now according to MY OWN STANDARDS OR OPINION."

First problem, the efreet could just come back at you at the first occasion and technically it wouldn't be a violation of this caveat. You getting charbroiled is NOT the consequence of you casting this spell, as evidenced by the fact that had you used the same spell to contact another entity, your fiery death would not have happened. As per the dictionary definition of the word, a consequence is something that necessarily follows from a set of conditions. The efreet taking revenge was not necessary, he could have decided not do do it; therefore, it's not a "consequence".

Second problem, "my own standards or opinions" takes only a matter of time to work around. As soon your character exasparatedly exclaims something like "Screw this, we would have been better off just taking that prison sentence", "I wish we were back with the twenty furious giants, it couldn't have been worse than this" or "Why don't you just slit my throat while I sleep, you couldn't be a greater pain in the ass" to the thief... well, you've just explicitly expressed an OPINION that the mentioned conditions would be no worse - and I'm sure Mr. Efreet would happily have them come about.

[austinjimm]

• Use a Candle of Invocation to summon a efreet
• Use a charge from the Rod of Beguiling to make him your friend (no saving throw)
• Use your first wish
• Use your second wish to recharge the Rod
• Use your third wish to create a Candle of Invocation.
• Dismiss the Efreet with your thanks.
• Repeat

As I recall, the rules state that wishing for more wishes will place the wisher in a time loop. Thus, at step 4 ("Use your third wish to create a Candle of Invocation") the character would be whisked back in time to the point when he first acquired the candle, all intervening x.p. and treasure would be lost and have to be regained.