Indeed. As I mentioned above the 'telling blow' does not appear to me to imply anything in itself; but is described in terms of the lethal/non-lethal combat. A telling blow to unhorse a man occurs when dicing to hit AC8, a lasso has an increased chance for a telling blow (entanglement) based on the armor type of the opponent. I realize this approach adds grandularity, but I cant figure a way to avoid it.delivering a telling blow with a long sword and "touching" an enemy are very different things. Two fighters going at it with daggers may touch each other many times in a round, but never deliver a "telling blow".
Touch Attacks (do you include armor)?
Re: Touch Attacks (do you include armor)?
Matthew wrote:
I think over again my small adventures. My fears, those small ones that seemed so big, for all the vital things I had to get and to reach, and yet, there is only one great thing, the only thing, to live to see the great day that dawns, and the light that fills the world. - Old Inuit Song
“Superstitions are religious forms surviving the loss of ideas. Some truth no longer known or a truth which has changed its aspect is the origin and explanation of all. The name from the Latin, superstes, signfies that which survives, they are the dead remnants of old knowledge or opinion” - Eliphas Levi (138 The History of Magic).
“Let no one wake a man brusquely for it is a matter difficult of cure if the soul find not its way back to him”, the Upanishads of ancient India ( 58 Our Oriental Heritage, Durant).
"Life is intrinsically, well, boring and dangerous at the same time. At any given moment the floor may open up. Of course, it almost never does; that's what makes it so boring" – Edward Gorey.
"The bright day is done and we are for the dark" - Shakespeare
"No lamp burns till morning" - Persian proverb.
“The living close the eyes of the dead, but it is the dead that open the eyes of the living”— Old Slavic saying.
'The best place to hide a light is in the sun' – old Arab proverb.
'To thee, thou wedding-guest!
He prayeth well who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast.
He prayeth best who loveth best,
All things both great and small:
For the dear God, who loveth us,
He made and loveth all' - Samuel Taylor Coleridge (VII Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner).
“Superstitions are religious forms surviving the loss of ideas. Some truth no longer known or a truth which has changed its aspect is the origin and explanation of all. The name from the Latin, superstes, signfies that which survives, they are the dead remnants of old knowledge or opinion” - Eliphas Levi (138 The History of Magic).
“Let no one wake a man brusquely for it is a matter difficult of cure if the soul find not its way back to him”, the Upanishads of ancient India ( 58 Our Oriental Heritage, Durant).
"Life is intrinsically, well, boring and dangerous at the same time. At any given moment the floor may open up. Of course, it almost never does; that's what makes it so boring" – Edward Gorey.
"The bright day is done and we are for the dark" - Shakespeare
"No lamp burns till morning" - Persian proverb.
“The living close the eyes of the dead, but it is the dead that open the eyes of the living”— Old Slavic saying.
'The best place to hide a light is in the sun' – old Arab proverb.
'To thee, thou wedding-guest!
He prayeth well who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast.
He prayeth best who loveth best,
All things both great and small:
For the dear God, who loveth us,
He made and loveth all' - Samuel Taylor Coleridge (VII Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner).
-
Matthew
- Master of the Silver Blade
- Posts: 8049
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:42 pm
- Location: Kanagawa, Japan
- Contact:
Re: Touch Attacks (do you include armor)?
Sure, but I think the point here is that "touch attacks" have no general special rule associated with them, so there is no more reason to have them ignore armour than a blow from a vampire or the claws of an owl bear. Nor is there much necessity in their rationalisation, it seems to me, as a wide variety of explanations from either side can be brought to bear.sepulchre wrote: Indeed. As I mentioned above the 'telling blow' does not appear to me to imply anything in itself; but is described in terms of the lethal/non-lethal combat. A telling blow to unhorse a man occurs when dicing to hit AC8, a lasso has an increased chance for a telling blow (entanglement) based on the armor type of the opponent. I realize this approach adds grandularity, but I cant figure a way to avoid it.
[i]It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.[/i]
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa[/i] (1340)
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa[/i] (1340)
Re: Touch Attacks (do you include armor)?
Matthew wrote:
Deathsdj wrote:
To be sure no ruling is spelled out.the point here is that "touch attacks" have no general special rule associated with them, so there is no more reason to have them ignore armour than a blow from a vampire or the claws of an owl bear.
Certainly after exhausting this thread, ambiguity abounds.Nor is there much necessity in their rationalisation,it seems to me, as a wide variety of explanations from either side can be brought to bear.
Deathsdj wrote:
Looked for this excerpt, but was unable to locate any reference to it...do you recall the page?There is also the text of the Enlarge spell in the DMG where it states that the DM can opt to require an actual touch as opposed to touching the clothing so I guess it could go either way.
I think over again my small adventures. My fears, those small ones that seemed so big, for all the vital things I had to get and to reach, and yet, there is only one great thing, the only thing, to live to see the great day that dawns, and the light that fills the world. - Old Inuit Song
“Superstitions are religious forms surviving the loss of ideas. Some truth no longer known or a truth which has changed its aspect is the origin and explanation of all. The name from the Latin, superstes, signfies that which survives, they are the dead remnants of old knowledge or opinion” - Eliphas Levi (138 The History of Magic).
“Let no one wake a man brusquely for it is a matter difficult of cure if the soul find not its way back to him”, the Upanishads of ancient India ( 58 Our Oriental Heritage, Durant).
"Life is intrinsically, well, boring and dangerous at the same time. At any given moment the floor may open up. Of course, it almost never does; that's what makes it so boring" – Edward Gorey.
"The bright day is done and we are for the dark" - Shakespeare
"No lamp burns till morning" - Persian proverb.
“The living close the eyes of the dead, but it is the dead that open the eyes of the living”— Old Slavic saying.
'The best place to hide a light is in the sun' – old Arab proverb.
'To thee, thou wedding-guest!
He prayeth well who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast.
He prayeth best who loveth best,
All things both great and small:
For the dear God, who loveth us,
He made and loveth all' - Samuel Taylor Coleridge (VII Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner).
“Superstitions are religious forms surviving the loss of ideas. Some truth no longer known or a truth which has changed its aspect is the origin and explanation of all. The name from the Latin, superstes, signfies that which survives, they are the dead remnants of old knowledge or opinion” - Eliphas Levi (138 The History of Magic).
“Let no one wake a man brusquely for it is a matter difficult of cure if the soul find not its way back to him”, the Upanishads of ancient India ( 58 Our Oriental Heritage, Durant).
"Life is intrinsically, well, boring and dangerous at the same time. At any given moment the floor may open up. Of course, it almost never does; that's what makes it so boring" – Edward Gorey.
"The bright day is done and we are for the dark" - Shakespeare
"No lamp burns till morning" - Persian proverb.
“The living close the eyes of the dead, but it is the dead that open the eyes of the living”— Old Slavic saying.
'The best place to hide a light is in the sun' – old Arab proverb.
'To thee, thou wedding-guest!
He prayeth well who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast.
He prayeth best who loveth best,
All things both great and small:
For the dear God, who loveth us,
He made and loveth all' - Samuel Taylor Coleridge (VII Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner).
Re: Touch Attacks (do you include armor)?
DMG page 44. Under spell explanation for Enlarge.sepulchre wrote:Looked for this excerpt, but was unable to locate any reference to it...do you recall the page?
It's a spotty reference at best but it does imply that when casting a touch spell the actual target must be touched not their clothes or armor.
Cheers!
MJW
Re: Touch Attacks (do you include armor)?
Interesting Thread. Its easy to see why in later editions they thought to break up and spell out touch attacks vs regular attacks.
Ive always ruled BTB for this. Using the monsters text for the monster in question and the spells text for the spell in question and not tried to get too wrapped up in the inconsistencies and variables....for that way lies 3E
. As long as you are consistent in your rulings, the players will be happy. 
(they might disagree the first time, but will adjust)
Ive always ruled BTB for this. Using the monsters text for the monster in question and the spells text for the spell in question and not tried to get too wrapped up in the inconsistencies and variables....for that way lies 3E
. As long as you are consistent in your rulings, the players will be happy. (they might disagree the first time, but will adjust)I was there in the beginning and I will be there in the end.
"Got any dragons you need slain?"--- 'Scar' Gordon
"Got any dragons you need slain?"--- 'Scar' Gordon