Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Consider this statement:

E. Gary Gygax wrote: The hydra attacks according to the number of heads it has, each head being considered a hit die.

There are many inferences that can be drawn here.

The first is that statement means that the hydra has a number of attacks equal to the number of heads it has. Or alternately that it attacks as a monster of HD = to number of live, active heads.

I am entirely OK with it being a beast of n HD until it dies, irrespective of how many hit points/heads it has lost. There's nothing else that contentious; a frost giant isn't as ineffective as a kobold when reduced to 4 HP; nor is a beholder as weak as a mere rat when at its last two.

thedungeondelver wrote:Consider this statement:

E. Gary Gygax wrote: The hydra attacks according to the number of heads it has, each head being considered a hit die.

There are many inferences that can be drawn here.

The first is that statement means that the hydra has a number of attacks equal to the number of heads it has. Or alternately that it attacks as a monster of HD = to number of live, active heads.

I am entirely OK with it being a beast of n HD until it dies, irrespective of how many hit points/heads it has lost. There's nothing else that contentious; a frost giant isn't as ineffective as a kobold when reduced to 4 HP; nor is a beholder as weak as a mere rat when at its last two.

You arent removing heads (HD) from those creatures when you damage them, though

Could be that EGG just picked the simplest terms to describe damage/loss and attacks.

Perhaps we are really talking about the # of attacks the creatures gets (5-12) and each N amount of damage reduces 1 possible attack. In such a light, reducing the # of attacks would not reduce the HD/ATK base of it, anymore than would a Slow on a fighter with multiple attacks, now down to 1.

There is much space left between the written word/s in this monster entry. Perhaps it is meant to be left up to each DM to decide.

DungeonDork wrote:

thedungeondelver wrote:Consider this statement:

E. Gary Gygax wrote: The hydra attacks according to the number of heads it has, each head being considered a hit die.

There are many inferences that can be drawn here.

The first is that statement means that the hydra has a number of attacks equal to the number of heads it has. Or alternately that it attacks as a monster of HD = to number of live, active heads.

I am entirely OK with it being a beast of n HD until it dies, irrespective of how many hit points/heads it has lost. There's nothing else that contentious; a frost giant isn't as ineffective as a kobold when reduced to 4 HP; nor is a beholder as weak as a mere rat when at its last two.

You arent removing heads (HD) from those creatures when you damage them, though

That's adding fine detail to a system that is aerodynamically unstable on purpose though. I mean we could have that silly debate that later edition propellerheads seem hell bent on having every six months on other forums about "what Hit Points really are", but lets not.

My ruling: Yes, head loss obviously = hit point loss and # of attack loss. It does not lower the hit-dice of the creature for attack purposes. (This is also a response to Thork's comment vis-a-vis each DM figuring it out for themselves.)

thedungeondelver wrote: It's going to be tough for the party of adventurers - three dual-classed types (fighter/thief, fighter/magic-user/thief, fighter/cleric, all 2nd level) and a single ranger of 1st level as they'll basically be fighting 5 monsters with 8HP but which attack as 5HD creatures and inflicting 1d6 damage per attack.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

Were that me in the party, I'd not be going toe-to-toe with that sucker. I'd find some other way of getting around it. That's one beautiful aspect of the game - there are ways to defeat/neutralize an opponent which aren't bounded by the sections on combat or spells.

francisca wrote:

thedungeondelver wrote: It's going to be tough for the party of adventurers - three dual-classed types (fighter/thief, fighter/magic-user/thief, fighter/cleric, all 2nd level) and a single ranger of 1st level as they'll basically be fighting 5 monsters with 8HP but which attack as 5HD creatures and inflicting 1d6 damage per attack.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

Were that me in the party, I'd not be going toe-to-toe with that sucker. I'd find some other way of getting around it. That's one beautiful aspect of the game - there are ways to defeat/neutralize an opponent which aren't bounded by the sections on combat or spells.

Where it's at is easily accessible through the upper dungeons; if the party waits eventually it'll sleep in the cave it's in, and they can sneak down and have a thief try and remove the treasure (really, unless they want the 1000 CP worth of crocks every other bit of treasure is portable).

thedungeondelver wrote:Consider this statement:

E. Gary Gygax wrote: The hydra attacks according to the number of heads it has, each head being considered a hit die.

There are many inferences that can be drawn here.

The first is that statement means that the hydra has a number of attacks equal to the number of heads it has. Or alternately that it attacks as a monster of HD = to number of live, active heads.

I am entirely OK with it being a beast of n HD until it dies, irrespective of how many hit points/heads it has lost. There's nothing else that contentious; a frost giant isn't as ineffective as a kobold when reduced to 4 HP; nor is a beholder as weak as a mere rat when at its last two.

I think thats just saying thats a general reflection of overall size and HPs. If you cut off all the heads, it dies (each requires x amount of damage). But If you totally fry its body with a massive fireball, I think that would kill the creature as well. Note, its not exactly the same as a giant squid or octopus, where if you cut off the arms iits body is still alive.