Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Back in the early-mid 1980s we usually gave each player the "per HP" XP for the damage they did to the enemy, with the "set XP" going to either the one that delivered the killing blow or, if a different character did more than half the total damage to that creature, split between the two.

Thieves got XP for performing their thief functions in a meaningful way, rangers for tracking, etc in a meaningful way, and so on.

Spell-casters got a set XP per level of spell they cast, with additional XP for the damage (or healing) done by the spell. If the spell duplicated a thief function they got added XP as if they had done the action as a thief, a druid casting entangle got 1/5 of the "set" XP for the creatures who failed their saves and 1/10 for those who saved but were impeded for at least 1 round, and so on.

We also eliminated the "XP-for-treasure", and limited item XP to when the character had to figure out what the item was & how to make it work... no XP for picking up something off the ground and keeping it.

With added XP for role-playing and a general "encounter/adventure" XP total (which included some based on how much loot they got as a party, goals achieved, etc), and the PCs advanced pretty much as fast as if we had gone "BTB"... but the XP awards now made sense, rather than being arbitrary.



Linking this back to the subject of this thread... the thief would gain XP for successfully taking & hiding the stuff he is "keeping back from the party", but (like everyone else) he would get no specific XP for the value of the loot.



The genesis of this was watching characters (including thieves, but also including M/Us) hang back, not risking injury by engaging in combat, letting the others get hurt and die while they remained relatively safe, then sneak around and grab loot (hiding some) while the clerics healed the fighters... with those who did least and risked least thus getting more treasure/magic items, and thus more XP, than those who did most of the work.

Rather than meta-gaming the issue of treasure-XP, as Bargle, TRP, and Flambeaux, our XP was based strongly on what each character DID... hide out and do little, and you don't learn (or earn) much. Get involved and exercise your skills, defeating the enemy and helping the party, and you learn (and earn) more.

What a radical concept!



And no, this wasn't the "BTB AD&D" answer... the "BTB" answer is that each character gets treasure/magic for what they have in their possession after the end of the game (subject to the rules on spending, selling, etc). If some of this is hidden from the rest of the party, too bad.

My understanding is that BTB only monster EXPS are split evenly. Gold and magic is split by who owns what (so if for some reason one PC or NPC gets 3 shares of gold he'd get 3x the EXPs)

BlackBat242 wrote: Whole lotta XP sub-system mechanics because they eliminated XP for treasure

BlackBat242 wrote: ...and the PCs advanced pretty much as fast as if we had gone "BTB"... but the XP awards now made sense, rather than being arbitrary.

Man, that's beaucoup time spent and administrative hassle to get the same end result.

BlackBat242 wrote:Rather than meta-gaming the issue of treasure-XP, as Bargle, TRP, and Flambeaux, our XP was based strongly on what each character DID... hide out and do little, and you don't learn (or earn) much. Get involved and exercise your skills, defeating the enemy and helping the party, and you learn (and earn) more.

What a radical concept!

And no, this wasn't the "BTB AD&D" answer... the "BTB" answer is that each character gets treasure/magic for what they have in their possession after the end of the game (subject to the rules on spending, selling, etc). If some of this is hidden from the rest of the party, too bad.

Not really. The BTB answer is for known party treasure that the DM is willing to give a 1:1 XP/GP ratio for, the method for how that treasure is divided is up to the party. So if someone is hanging back and not pulling their load, give them less. Now their XP is more (or less) for helping the party more (or less).

For stuff where the thief is pocketing unknown treasure, if the DM thinks the PC thief is sandbagging the party somehow in this process such that the challenge is inappropriate for the treasure gain, which is as you describe above, then the DM decreases the XP/GP ratio for the treasure from 1:1 to 1:10 or 1:100.

If you like an alternate XP system, that's between the players and the DM. I'm just pointing out that as written, the rules for treasure/XP give the DM plenty of leeway in preventing leveling if they don't think the challenge is appropriate.

Not strictly BTB, but I like it when...all XP is divided evenly amongst the party regardless of who gets which magic item.(Edit: Assuming everyone contributed to the encounter as best they could.) Players may receive bonus XP based on really imaginative play and quick thinking.
As for killing blow = character receives all of XP(not sure about all...), definitely remember that going around when I first started playing (2e)...but I think it was more of a joke we'd make while playing.
Related, I know in PC games like Baldur's gate, for example, there is some kind of XP bonus which goes to the character which strikes the killing blow.

In the current OD&D campaign I'm playing in, the DM gives out the xp according to who keeps the gold.

So, the party basically browbeat my dwarf (who had the highest hp in the party and infravision, but who is a bit of a greedy coward) into acting as the scout. My dwarf entered a room alone and found a silver necklace on a pedestal, with a swinging pendulum blade over it. My dwarf disarmed the blade and took the necklace, but didn't see the poison gas trap that was also in the room. However, he made his save against poison (as dwarves tend to do) and walked out of the room unscathed.

When he rejoined the party, he told them not to go into the room because of the poison gas, but neglected to tell them about the treasure he snatched. This was played out in front of the whole group. No one complained, but the party also stopped insisting that my dwarf go into rooms alone.

After reading all this, I feel like a Communist or something...I tally all XP for magic/monsters/treasure and divide it equally amongst the survivors except for XP awarded for individual actions (ie. the thief steals something valuable for himself - he gets the XP, or the magic user successfully uses Charm Monster before anyone else even enters melee and successfully ends the combat - he gets the XP).

But, I also don't quibble much when the rest of the party loots the thief instead of having him Raised, or at least imposes a massive tax on his ill-gotten gains (from what should have been party treasure). Overall I try to keep the peace, but ultimately you get what's coming to you.

fingolwyn wrote:After reading all this, I feel like a Communist or something...

Nah, don't beat yourself up. We basically divide equally as well, just for simplicity's sake. I'm sure people get screwed a little from session to session (as compared with a BtB approach), but it likely works itself out over time.

Besides, the party worked together to reach the items (fighter protecting mage, cleric healing fighter, mage sleeping group of monsters, etc), so splitting the XP for items seems reasonable to me, generally speaking. Be different if I also gave an XP share to the cowardly guy who stayed in town, drinking at the tavern, while the others went down into the dungeon.

Exactly right. Just because you can split the treasure up unevenly doesn't mean we do it (we typically figure out splits before we leave town, the standard is always evenly split all treasure and magic split at the end with the person it most benefits taken into consideration). If a much higher level PC goes with the group he might demand an extra share, or an NPC with a map might demand extra (perhaps a particular magic item rumored to be there).

a couple caveats:
-In our games, once its split its split (based on the agreement before the adventure). So if the thief (who has way more exps then he needs) wants to give away his extra points to the paladin who is say close to leveling up he can't.

-If the paladin has the Exps but not the gold the thief can lend or give the gold to him (just not the exps).

-The person who ends up "owning" the magic found keeps its exps. If its never given to anyone (just shared) then the exps get split (this only rarely happens).

Its a house rule I guess, but it seems to be in the spirit of the intended system.