When a thief holds something back...

[Chainsaw]

So, when a thief (or any PC, I guess) holds something back from the rest of the party, is that item's XP value shared? I would assume not, right? Otherwise you've given away that the PC held something back (I guess eventually it comes out, of course - "Hey, how'd you afford that brand new castle?!?").

For example, if ligedog finds two rubies, but only says he found one, then the group splits the XP from the one and ligedog keeps all of the XP for the one he held back. Does that make sense?

[T. Foster]

BTB treasure XP isn't split like monster XP, it goes to the character who keeps the treasure. Of course in most parties the treasure is divided as evenly as possible, which simulates an even split, but when the split isn't even (by necessity or design) neither is the XP award. So the thief who pockets some extra gems, or the magic-user who gets to keep the scroll or wand and doesn't get his cash-share reduced, gets extra XP.

[Bargle]

I don't facilitate players lying to each other. They can lie to NPC's but not players. In the open, I would discuss the "thief tax", as in the thief stole two gems for the group and will keep one of them (or both if the player insists--players determine the division of gold/items, so the thief makes his case to his fellow players)

Even better, I would give the thief some free XP for using his thief skills and recomend that both gems go into the communal pot. That way everyone wins.

[Chainsaw]

@Foster - got it, got it, that makes sense.

[Matthew]

Top tip: Have henchmen encourage player characters to keep extra treasure for themselves, nothing endears an NPC to a PC like looking out for his interests.

[capitalbill]

For example, if ligedog finds two rubies, but only says he found one, then the group splits the XP from the one and ligedog keeps all of the XP for the one he held back. Does that make sense?

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

BTB treasure XP isn't split like monster XP, it goes to the character who keeps the treasure. Of course in most parties the treasure is divided as evenly as possible, which simulates an even split, but when the split isn't even (by necessity or design) neither is the XP award. So the thief who pockets some extra gems, or the magic-user who gets to keep the scroll or wand and doesn't get his cash-share reduced, gets extra XP.

That's how I've always done it; usually it works out to an even split- but if one character gets an unequal share of the treasure (for whatever reason) they also get more XP.

[Chainsaw]

For example, if ligedog finds two rubies, but only says he found one, then the group splits the XP from the one and ligedog keeps all of the XP for the one he held back. Does that make sense?

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Of course, of course.

[TRP]

I calculate all XP 'behind the screen" so-to-speak, so the players don't know what exactly comprises each of their totals.

[Chainsaw]

I calculate all XP 'behind the screen" so-to-speak, so the players don't know what exactly comprises each of their totals.

That's pretty much how I do it as well. I have a spreadsheet to keep up with all the objective bits and pieces, but I also incorporate a bonus for some subjective elements - roleplaying, smart thinking, good playing, etc.

Plus, quite honestly, given how infrequently we play (every two weeks, but occasionally it slips a week or we miss a session), if one or more PCs is very close to reaching the next level (needs 76 XP or something silly like that), I'll just bump them up.

[Flambeaux]

I calculate all XP 'behind the screen" so-to-speak, so the players don't know what exactly comprises each of their totals.

I do this, too. Usually, I just divide the monster XP and the treasure XP evenly over the surviving members of the party.

I don't really care how they divide the treasure. I'm not sure I've ever had players who cared, either.

[Kellri]

Was playing with a wacky Canadian DM who awards monster xp entirely to whoever delivers the killing blow. That's, erm, wildly in favor of my thief character that likes to cherry pick with a bow to steal kills so to speak.

[James Maliszewski]

Was playing with a wacky Canadian DM who awards monster xp entirely to whoever delivers the killing blow. That's, erm, wildly in favor of my thief character that likes to cherry pick with a bow to steal kills so to speak.

Didn't 2e have something like that in it? Maybe that's where he got the idea.

[grodog]

Was playing with a wacky Canadian DM who awards monster xp entirely to whoever delivers the killing blow. That's, erm, wildly in favor of my thief character that likes to cherry pick with a bow to steal kills so to speak.

Didn't 2e have something like that in it? Maybe that's where he got the idea.

I definitely heard of groups playing that way before 2e was out---makes me wonder if it was an idea inherited from another FRPG somewhere along the way?

I tally the XPs split at some good breaking point in the adventure, generally after PCs have exited from the dungeon and returned to civilization (or if they're far, far away from civilization, sometime after an extended rest period), following what I think* the DMG and PHB say:

- split the combat XP among surviving members equally, based on any contribution to the combat success
- calculate the XP challenge ratio to determine if the combats are awarded at 100% XP or less (or more: if the ratios are significantly against the PCs, I will often bump up the monster XP award)
- apply bonuses for excellence in play (which is usually an additional 05%/10%/15% for the top 3 role-players, players with the brilliant ideas and insights that saved the day, etc.); I'm pretty sure this isn't BTB
- apply bonuses for high ability scores, if any
- magic item XPs are given to whichever PC retains the magic item, rather than going into the party split pool---this tends to keep PCs more staggered in levels/XPs awarded in general, but still within the same broad range (unless someone find a major item, of course)

On the treasure front, I award XPs based on individual treasure retained too: so thieves or anyone else who either clandestinely pocket or openly retain additional/different treasure will have different XP awards too. In general, the PCs split treasure equally, but that's not always possible WRT magic items, so often a PC who receives a nice magic item (with some additional XP assigned to it) may-well receive less GP in the treasure split as compensation for the magic. (And that may-well mean that the PCs with the magic items may not have sufficient gold to pay for training costs to advance in level, of course---that's another downside to getting magic in lieu of gold, sometimes).

Anyway, my $.02

* I'm growing more leery of "how I've always done things" more recently

[TRP]

Was playing with a wacky Canadian DM who awards monster xp entirely to whoever delivers the killing blow. That's, erm, wildly in favor of my thief character that likes to cherry pick with a bow to steal kills so to speak.

Didn't 2e have something like that in it? Maybe that's where he got the idea.

I definitely heard of groups playing that way before 2e was out---makes me wonder if it was an idea inherited from another FRPG somewhere along the way?

The Fantasy Trip worked that way. Character placing the killing stroke got all of the XP from that opponent. It made for some intensely competitive combats.

[James Maliszewski]

The Fantasy Trip worked that way. Character placing the killing stroke got all of the XP from that opponent. It made for some intensely competitive combats.

I just checked to confirm my suspicion, but this approach is also present in Empire of the Petal Throne, where only the character who deals the killing blow gets XP for the opponent. So, it's a very old idea, going back to 1975 at the least.