Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Using just the three core books and early modules (not Dragon), how would you design something as close to a necromancer as possible (say around 12th)? What class(s), spells, languages, magic items perhaps that sort of thing.

I dunno if it should be a distinct sub-class of the m-u or the cleric, but either way, I'd heavily use Smith's Empire of The Necromancers as inspiration, and would have to create some new spells for it, and it would need bonuses to the Control Undead table.

There was a Necromancer class in early White Dwarf

I can scan the pages if you wanted a look...

I did one for Knockspell #1. So, I guess that's exactly how I would design it. As an NPC class of course.

Ditto (although mine wasn't for KS ).

Kellri wrote:I did one for Knockspell #1. So, I guess that's exactly how I would design it. As an NPC class of course.

I remember that. In this case I'm trying to avoid making a distinct subclass with unique spells and abilities. I suppose the best bet would be a MU Cleric? Which spells would you take? Also, does the DMG or MM mention something like a Necromancer (the way it goes into shaman)?

AxeMental wrote:In this case I'm trying to avoid making a distinct subclass with unique spells and abilities.

Hmm. Well, here are the PH MU spells that are necromantic:

• feign death (3)
• animate dead (5)
• reincarnation (6)

Not a terribly impressive list. And when you consider that the cleric also gets feign death, gets animate dead at a lower level, and gets raise dead before the MU can cast reincarnation, well... And that's not even mentioning the cleric's other necromantic spells and turn/influence undead ability. One could argue that a necromancer built with the core rules shouldn't be based on a MU, at all.

Nevertheless, if you wanted MU spells as part of a necromancer built using only core rules, I guess I'd go half-elf C/MU (but a half-elven necromancer seems a bit girly, or something -- maybe make it a hot, emo half-even chick necromancer). I guess I'm just biased towards humans. Besides, wouldn't your necromancer want to become a lich, at some point?

For a human, I guess I'd dual-class. Maybe start as a cleric, then dual-classes over to MU. If the human goes to 5th level cleric, he'll have 3rd level Cleric spells and auto-turn/influence skeletons, zombies, and ghouls. Then dual into MU for seven levels, which will give him up to 4th level MU spells (including monster summoning II -- see below). Or you could reverse the order, in which case you'll be a dual class MU5/C7 and have up to 3rd level MU spells and 4th level Cleric spells. And you'll auto turn/influence undead up to ghasts.

As for the MU spells, I'd go for flavor. Divination spells are easily "colored" as receiving info from dead spirits or psychic memory of the dead or something. Lots of individual spells can be renamed and re-skinned for necromantic flavor. Sleep becomes Little Death, Ventriloquism becomes Ghost Whisper, Stinking Cloud becomes Stench of the Grave, Hold Person becomes Rigor Mortis, et cetera.

One fairly significant thing you could do for a "necromancer" MU is have his monster summoning spells always summon undead. The Players Handbook spell descriptions say the summoned monsters are randomly determined by the referee. Create some special "necromancer" monster summoning tables. That's not really a "special power," it's just a random list that is appropriate to the circumstances, just like you'd use different random tables for a standard MU casting the spell underwater vs. on land.

IIRC, I didn't really add new spells per se, so much as collecting both MU & Cleric spells into a class-specific list. You could do a straight MU/CL necromancer, but it would lack either necromancy (prophecy via the dead) or creating undead.

What I would do is raise the experience requirement (probably 3,001 to hit level two and 14,000,001 to hit level twelve) and lower the spell level of necromantic magic. So, for instance, a necromancer would treat animate dead as a fourth level spell.

Assuming we're going for an Evil Necromancer...here's my pick of the spells

Cleric

First Level Spells:
Cure Light Wounds (reversed)
Detect Evil (reversed)
Detect Magic
Light
Protection from Evil (reversed)
Purify Food & Drink (reversed)
Remove fear (reversed)

Second Level Spells:
Resist Fire
Silence, 15' Radius

Third Level Spells:
Animate Dead
Continual Light
Speak with Dead

Fourth Level Spells:
Cure Serious Wounds(reversed)
Protection From Evil, 10' Radius(reversed)

Fifth Level Spells:
Cure Critical Wounds(reversed)
Dispel Evil(reversed)
Raise Dead(reversed)

Sixth Level Spells:
Heal(reversed)

Seventh Level Spells:
Holy(unholy) Word
Regenerate(reversed)
Restoration(reversed)
Resurrection(reversed)


I had a look at the MU spell list, and don't actually think there is any need to take from there at all with these possible exceptions:

Darkness 15' Radius(2)
Scare(2)
Fear(4)
Death Spell(6)
Repulsion(6)
Power Word, Kill(9)

I think most of those spell effects are more or less replicated by the spells in the Cleric Spell list though. The Druid has Finger of Death(7), which could be quite a nice addition.

I reckon the Cleric's spell selection and its turn undead ability makes it the way to go...all the way to 18th Level and then you become a lich(no...not that kind!). Bingo...one bad-ass Necromancer.

AxeMental wrote:Using just the three core books and early modules (not Dragon), how would you design something as close to a necromancer as possible (say around 12th)? What class(s), spells, languages, magic items perhaps that sort of thing.

For an NPC, there wouldn't be much design at all. I might make up a few spells which could be used in combat against the NPCs, and roll his HP with d4s, but otherwise, the Necromancer would be almost entirely "behind the curtain", and all of the undead and other supernatural creepiness would just be due to the "power of the nec-ro-mancaaahhhhhhrrrrr"*.

I wouldn't allow it as a PC.

*: Sing it like Ronnie James Dio!

No, sing it like Geddy!

Brooding in the tower
Watching o'er his land
Holding ev'ry creature
Helplessly they stand
Gaze into his prisms
Knowing they are near
Lead them to the dungeons
Spectres numb with fear
They bow defeated

Joe Mac wrote:No, sing it like Geddy!

Brooding in the tower
Watching o'er his land
Holding ev'ry creature
Helplessly they stand
Gaze into his prisms
Knowing they are near
Lead them to the dungeons
Spectres numb with fear
They bow defeated

I been out-Dirked!

Here's my necromancer. Stolen heavily from the 1e illusionist and a bit from everquest. I haven't worked out the last bit about replacing magic item creation with undead army creation...

I was thinking that at 11th level, necromancers gain the ability to control undead as an evil cleric of 1/2 their own level rounded down.

francisca wrote:

AxeMental wrote:Using just the three core books and early modules (not Dragon), how would you design something as close to a necromancer as possible (say around 12th)? What class(s), spells, languages, magic items perhaps that sort of thing.

For an NPC, there wouldn't be much design at all. I might make up a few spells which could be used in combat against the NPCs, and roll his HP with d4s, but otherwise, the Necromancer would be almost entirely "behind the curtain", and all of the undead and other supernatural creepiness would just be due to the "power of the nec-ro-mancaaahhhhhhrrrrr"*.

I wouldn't allow it as a PC.

*: Sing it like Ronnie James Dio!

This actually seems very Gygaxian Fran. What I was trying to do is create a necromancer for a module I've written that would be similar to what might have occured in an early 1E module. Treating it like a monster type seems pretty spot on (compared to creating it as an NPC). Francisca do you see this more as an MU or Cleric base (or neither)?