Knights & Knaves Alehouse

francisca wrote:

AxeMental wrote:Using just the three core books and early modules (not Dragon), how would you design something as close to a necromancer as possible (say around 12th)? What class(s), spells, languages, magic items perhaps that sort of thing.

For an NPC, there wouldn't be much design at all. I might make up a few spells which could be used in combat against the NPCs, and roll his HP with d4s, but otherwise, the Necromancer would be almost entirely "behind the curtain", and all of the undead and other supernatural creepiness would just be due to the "power of the nec-ro-mancaaahhhhhhrrrrr"*.

I wouldn't allow it as a PC.

*: Sing it like Ronnie James Dio!

This actually seems very Gygaxian. More like a monster then NPC which is cool. So do you see them as more a cleric, mu or neither?

I was thinking for a PC built with just the PH rules. For an NPC, I agree that all bets are off: assign whatever powers/spells/abilities you want. Personally, I picture a Necromancer as more of an evil magic user than a cleric, despite the RAW seeming to favor clerics in that role.

If you check out Jim Ward's article "Wizard with a Difference" in TD17, it might give you some interesting ideas on how to approach the idea of a specialist wizard, Axe, still using standard spells. I think the ideas above are all great, but you might get some inspiration from the article.

I think if you ended up going down the path of drawing more heavily on Conan stories, Gygax's Gravestone villain from the Gord novels, and sources like Lakofka's Death Master in TD76 and the 2e Book of Necromancers, that you'll end up far closer to the idea of a new sub-class than you want to be. That said, I still think it's worth following the Gravestone link for spell list inspiration, at least.

Bas-Tegor, the Necromancer
HD 9 hp 40
AC type 10
str 12 int 16 wis 17 dex 13 con 12 chr 10, middle aged
align N
save as cleric/MU L12
spells (as L12 caster)
cure light wounds, cause light wounds, detect magic, slow poison, animate dead (2 xday), speak with dead (3 x day), feign death(2 x day), cure serious wounds, cause serious wounds, cure critical wounds, cause critical wounds, slay living, raise dead (1 per week), heal, harm, reincarnate (MU version) energy drain, restoration (1 per week), resurrection(1 per month), death spell, finger of death, destruction(1 per week), regenerate (1 per week), wither

Amulet vs Undead (This Chalcedony amulet is graven with glyphs of power; it can be used to produce an effect equal to a scroll of protection vs undead at the cost of 1 charge. Such items contain 3-30 charges when found)

Ring of Protection vs Undead (This diamond ring prevents the affects of undead attacks such as energy drain, strength drain or paralysis. One charge is used per such attack form suffered (or failed save vs). The ring contains 3-30 charges when found & the diamond crumbles to dust when out of charges)

Potion of Ghoul/Ghast control

Mulamber the black, necromancer
HD 9 HP 50
AC type 10 (7)
str 12 int 16 wis 18 dex 14 con 11 chr 12 , middle aged
align NE
save as cleric or MU L12
spells as L12 caster: cause light wounds, detect magic, animate dead (2 xday), speak with dead (3 x day), feign death(2 x day), cause serious wounds, cause critical wounds, slay living, harm, reincarnate (MU version) energy drain, death spell, finger of death, destruction(1 per week), wither
Command Undead as L12 cleric, double # affected

Shadow Cloak (this black silk like cloak contains the bound essence of a shadow; the garment confers the abilities of a shadow on it's wearer; 90% undetectable save in brightly lit areas, +1 or better weapon required to hit, AC 7)

Philotomy Jurament wrote: For an NPC, I agree that all bets are off: assign whatever powers/spells/abilities you want. Personally, I picture a Necromancer as more of an evil magic user than a cleric, despite the RAW seeming to favor clerics in that role.

Also agree.

AxeMental wrote:
This actually seems very Gygaxian. More like a monster then NPC which is cool. So do you see them as more a cleric, mu or neither?

I'd say 65/35 Mu/Cleric.

I'd treat them more like a monster, as a necromancer might make one appearance, ever, in one of my games, and frankly, I'm too damn lazy/busy to fuss over things like xp needed for level progression, whether it should be more clerical than magic-user-ish, etc....