Knights & Knaves Alehouse

I found the answers to the amount of gold a character would informative and useful but I reading them I realized that I didn't ask the right question.

What I am trying to determine is not the amount of loose change a character would have but rather the amount of wealth. The value of all their resources. This is useful for fighter in determine the size of their retinue, for magic-users the size of their labs, components, etc. This could include magic items at lower levels but some may have invested in a stronghold or similar setup.

One suggestion I got was that 80% of a character's XP derives from treasure and use that as a starting point for the rest of the character's wealth. Are this anything that I may have missed in the rulebooks on this topic?

I've just always given NPCs whatever I want them to have. I assume they have unlimited resources unless the resources in question can either be appropriated by the PCs or are by their nature limited (magic items, artefacts, etc.).

As far as I can recall, there are no by-the-book rules or guidelines for assigning wealth to an NPC, by level or otherwise, like there is in 3e.

I remember in the MM and DMG percentages for finding magic items among NPC parties and the like, but like I said, I don't think there are 3e-style wealth rules in AD&D.

I don't even understand this question...

If as a DM you want to place a wealthy NPC, place a wealthy NPC -- if not, place a poor one. If you absolutely must roll randomly, there are tons of treasure types in the MM, from the meanest individual goblin through the average HARD.

Why there should be rules around "proper" creation about such minutiae, i can't imagine.

godentag wrote:I don't even understand this question...
Why there should be rules around "proper" creation about such minutiae, i can't imagine.

This type of minutiae is important to the PCs that may loot the place.

From time to time I write up a complete place. Recently I wrote up a guild full of mages. Now I am figuring out what each individual mage has. I find that random generators help me fill in the details beyond the first handful of entries. In addition they help me keep the treasure award consistent. In this case what valuable stuff the mages have hanging around their lab. Plus the way the players are approaching this some mages may get looted while other not.

The treasure type work find for monsters but not so well for leveled NPCs like the mages in the guild. I found three separate methods of generating what magic items in the DMG. But nothing so far for the wealth they may have. So I am turning to the experts and see if I missed something buried somewhere.

What I plan to do is randomly generate each NPC's magic items. Then use their wealth to figure out much coin, and more importantly how much interesting equipment they have. 3rd Edition D&D has a chart for that and I am wondering if AD&D did.

francisca wrote:I remember in the MM and DMG percentages for finding magic items among NPC parties and the like, but like I said, I don't think there are 3e-style wealth rules in AD&D.

Yup, in the DMG, there are three slightly different treatment of what magic items a NPC (or party has). But nothing on wealth.

robertsconley wrote:

godentag wrote:I don't even understand this question...
Why there should be rules around "proper" creation about such minutiae, i can't imagine.

This type of minutiae is important to the PCs that may loot the place.

From time to time I write up a complete place. Recently I wrote up a guild full of mages. Now I am figuring out what each individual mage has. I find that random generators help me fill in the details beyond the first handful of entries. In addition they help me keep the treasure award consistent. In this case what valuable stuff the mages have hanging around their lab. Plus the way the players are approaching this some mages may get looted while other not.

The treasure type work find for monsters but not so well for leveled NPCs like the mages in the guild. I found three separate methods of generating what magic items in the DMG. But nothing so far for the wealth they may have. So I am turning to the experts and see if I missed something buried somewhere.

What I plan to do is randomly generate each NPC's magic items. Then use their wealth to figure out much coin, and more importantly how much interesting equipment they have. 3rd Edition D&D has a chart for that and I am wondering if AD&D did.

You missed the important point...not surprisingly, since you snipped it. I don't understand why should there be rules to govern "wealth", over and above the rules for random determination of "treasure" for encountered monsters.

Shouldn't there be some fabulously wealthy mages and some who are paupered by obsession, within a single guild?

godentag wrote:You missed the important point...not surprisingly, since you snipped it. I don't understand why should there be rules to govern "wealth", over and above the rules for random determination of "treasure" for encountered monsters.

Because there is no treasure type for leveled NPCs. And the rules for magic items for NPCs doesn't cover gold piece treasure. Hence there appears to be a gap in the treasure rules.

I guess you could try and figure it out from the "men" entries in the Monster Manual.

robertsconley wrote:

godentag wrote:You missed the important point...not surprisingly, since you snipped it. I don't understand why should there be rules to govern "wealth", over and above the rules for random determination of "treasure" for encountered monsters.

Because there is no treasure type for leveled NPCs. And the rules for magic items for NPCs doesn't cover gold piece treasure. Hence there appears to be a gap in the treasure rules.

But shouldn't that gap exist? I mean really, is it too much a stretch to expect DMs to figure it out themselves if they're doing the design work in advance? Take clerics for example, shouldn't there be both penniless wandering prophets as well as rich abbots and bishops? What you, as DM, want to make of that keyed NPC

Doesn't leaving things open make more sense than simply assuming that every leveled NPC will have a certain amount of "wealth" hard-wired into his or her class level?

is it too much a stretch to expect DMs to figure it out themselves

I mean why have a wandering monster chart when the DM can just decide on a wandering monster?

1) sometimes DM's want to be seen as impartial, and a chart rolled on with dice gives the DM deniability of accountability when the PC's find zero gold (or meet orcus as a wandering monster).
2) sometimes the DM's are lazy---or they don't want to have think up elaborate lives of penniless clerics, or have writers block.
3) it's fun for the DM sometimes not to know the outcomes as well. It is fun for the guy making the dungeon to be surprised at what's in store for the PC's as well

I lean heavy on #1. The DM as referee and blameless adjudicator.

godentag wrote: But shouldn't that gap exist? I mean really, is it too much a stretch to expect DMs to figure it out themselves if they're doing the design work in advance? Take clerics for example, shouldn't there be both penniless wandering prophets as well as rich abbots and bishops? What you, as DM, want to make of that keyed NPC

Doesn't leaving things open make more sense than simply assuming that every leveled NPC will have a certain amount of "wealth" hard-wired into his or her class level?

Because making stuff doesn't scale after a certain point and a random table helps with that. It is easier to explain or alter a random result then it is to create new stuff out of whole cloth. I generally have 6 to 18 firm ideas about a locale and fill in the rest with random tables. A good random table for wealth would have probabilities just like the NPC magic item table and the treasure type.

And so we are clear, I consider everything like this just a guideline including what already there in the core books.

Bargle wrote:

is it too much a stretch to expect DMs to figure it out themselves

I mean why have a wandering monster chart when the DM can just decide on a wandering monster?

1) sometimes DM's want to be seen as impartial, and a chart rolled on with dice gives the DM deniability of accountability when the PC's find zero gold (or meet orcus as a wandering monster).
2) sometimes the DM's are lazy---or they don't want to have think up elaborate lives of penniless clerics, or have writers block.
3) it's fun for the DM sometimes not to know the outcomes as well. It is fun for the guy making the dungeon to be surprised at what's in store for the PC's as well

I lean heavy on #1. The DM as referee and blameless adjudicator.

I agree that random determination certainly has benefits. Which is why I don't understand why another chart is needed to duplicate what exists already.

The benefits of random determination can be easily met by (a) randomly rolling for magic items and then (b) randomly rolling for treasure.

godentag wrote: The benefits of random determination can be easily met by (a) randomly rolling for magic items and then (b) randomly rolling for treasure.

Why don't you post how you roll treasure for an 8th level magic user. I see the magic item charts but not the treasure chart you are talking about.

robertsconley wrote:

godentag wrote: The benefits of random determination can be easily met by (a) randomly rolling for magic items and then (b) randomly rolling for treasure.

Why don't you post how you roll treasure for an 8th level magic user. I see the magic item charts but not the treasure chart you are talking about.

Step 1: Roll 1d6.

1=Treasure Type A
2=Treasure Type B
3=Treasure Type C
4=Treasure Type D
5=Treasure Type E
6=Treasure Type F

Step 2: Roll on appropriate table