Would the spell Detect Evil detect an orc?

[AxeMental]

This came up in another thread concerning paladins ability to detect evil PCs and NPCs. I think no. It would make the spell/ability way to powerful. I take "emanations" in the spell descriptions as being something supernatural. Your thoughts?

[Random]

Certainly they'd be detected. They are, afterall, evil as a species rather than individually.
For humans, they'd have to be a special case (e.g. an evil high priest) to be detected.
As for glowing, sure, why not?

[TRP]

Maybe if the orc were 10th level.

IOW, no.

[ScottyG]

It depends. Do you prefer the PH description of the spell, or the DMG description of the ability?
The PH description of the spell clearly states that the evil alignment will radiate evil and be detectable.
The DMG states that in most cases an evil alignment could not be detected by the spell and that a know alignment would be required for general evil alignment detection. Only powerful evil monsters would radiate evil, which would rule out most orcs.
I prefer the DMG version.

[TRP]

DMG trumps PHB.

[Matthew]

In this case, the DMG is much preferable and not contradicting the PHB, only clarifying under what conditions evil alignments radiate evil. Short answer, no.

[tacojohn4547]

Interesting. I don't know that I was aware of the 'clarification' in the DMG on detect evil.

[Clangador]

I've had players actually complain to me about the "secret" spell descriptions in the DMG. Like it is their right to know the effects of every single spell.

[EOTB]

I disagree. An orc has committed evil acts, and is steeped in foulness, from birth. Although it is not specifically stated in the rules, I think the intent is to apply the level limit only in cases where a race is eligible for PHB classes. Shaman and Witch Doctor are not PHB classes. If the orc isn't detectable, then a werewolf wouldn't be detectable (only 4+3 HD). BtB I think there is room in the description to allow for these cases, as the monsters no more have character classes than an evil altar.

Going outside btb, I think Gygax wanted to do some retconning here but went so far it makes no sense. If only 1% of a population will be of the superior type who can exceed 0-level, how many of those 1% will become 8th level? .000001%?

I think the limitation of must be actively considering evil actions is sufficient to prevent Paladins from running amok.

[Random]

Apparently, I'm in the minority. I just don't find any problem with detect evil revealing monsters such as orcs. It makes the spell more useful, more fun, and it jives perfectly well with the PHB.

[godentag]

DMG trumps PHB.

No way, man!

PHB over DMG every time. No player is justified in pointing to something in the DMG or MM and complaining "it's not fair" because the DM judged against or tweaked the rule. But when there's something in the PHB spelled out in black-and-white, then no amount of ret-conning in a later book explicitly for the DM's eyes only should trump it without such being an openly known house-rule.

And the PHB is completely clear that the orc would be detected because of its evil alignment.

The spell's just an aura reading, a useful divination. As 1st level spells go, that certainly not more powerful than command or charm person or sleep.

[AxeMental]

DMG trumps PHB.

No way, man!

PHB over DMG every time. No player is justified in pointing to something in the DMG or MM and complaining "it's not fair" because the DM judged against or tweaked the rule. But when there's something in the PHB spelled out in black-and-white, then no amount of ret-conning in a later book explicitly for the DM's eyes only should trump it without such being an openly known house-rule.

And the PHB is completely clear that the orc would be detected because of its evil alignment.

I don't read the PH as clearly stating that it detects characters alignments. It says it will detect emanations of evil alignment. Thats like something radiating that alignment (which I don't think personality is enough) I think its a supernatural thing.

The spell's just an aura reading, a useful divination. As 1st level spells go, that certainly not more powerful than command or charm person or sleep.

[foxroe]

The PHB just states that the Paladin has the ability to detect evil (note, not the spell Detect Evil) within 60', at will. It does not define how that ability works. Does it detect evil alignment? Does it detect evil intentions? Does it work only for 60' in a straight line, or is it a 60' radius? Is it like radar? Can it pinpoint the source of evil, or does it just give a sense of presence? Does it convey the degree of evil? The answers to all of these questions are entirely up to the Dungeon Master.

Further, the DMG introduction states:

The format of this book is simple and straightforward. The first sections pertain to material contained in the PLAYERS HANDBOOK, and each pertinent section is in corresponding order. Much information was purposely omitted from the latter work, as it is data which would not normally be known - at least initially - to a person of the nature which this game presupposes, i.e. an adventurer in a world of swords 8 sorcery. It is incumbent upon all DMs to be thoroughly conversant with the PLAYERS HANDBOOK, and at the same time you must also know the additional information which is given in this volume, for it rounds out and completes the whole.

[godentag]

I don't read the PH as clearly stating that it detects characters alignments. It says it will detect emanations of evil alignment. Thats like something radiating that alignment (which I don't think personality is enough) I think its a supernatural thing.

I absolutely agree that Detect Evil works differently from Know Alignment. I'm even willing to accept that different DMs might want to limit a Paladin's power to detect evil in a way that I don't. But that's not what you asked.

The actual PHB text for the cleric spell says (emphasis mine): "This is a spell which discovers emanations of evil, or of good in the case in the case of the reverse spell, from any creature or object. For example, evil alignment or an evilly cursed object will radiate evil, but a hidden trap or unintelligent viper will not." The magic-user version says it works the same way.

By a plain reading of the PHB, an orc (creature = check, evil alignment = check) will radiate evil emanations within range of the cleric and m-u spells.

[Juju EyeBall]

They are lawful evil, though, not pure evil. maybe they cancel each other out.