Knights & Knaves Alehouse

In a game last week something interesting came up. A light spell was cast upon an enemies eyes. The enemy failed and ran away (a native in no armor so he could move quickly). The group wanted to follow, and argued although it was dark they should be able to see the light spell from a distance. Luckily there was a monk who could keep up, but how should this have worked IYO?

Would a light spell give off light outside of its area of effect (is it like a silence spell were inside the area of effect all noise stops) or like Darkness its reverse. Or would you rule that light given off by the spell still can be made out from outside the area of effect. If you think about it, if light doesn't travel outside of the area of effect you couldn't even see it. My ruling is that its center based and disipates from that point (the way a torch might). Once it reaches the outside boundary of the spell the light that continues outward is much weaker (perhaps candle brightness) and disipates quickly.

You can see light at a distance, even if it does not illuminate your surroundings, I figure that is how it works for the light spell as well.

Matthew wrote:You can see light at a distance, even if it does not illuminate your surroundings, I figure that is how it works for the light spell as well.

That's how I'd rule, too. I'd say that you can see the light spell from a long way off, just like you could see someone carrying a torch or a lantern from quite a distance.

Matthew wrote:You can see light at a distance, even if it does not illuminate your surroundings, I figure that is how it works for the light spell as well.

But that is because, even at a great distance, light is still reaching your eyes (even distant stars). If light from a light spell is limited to an area of effect (that is no light leaves that area of effect) in theory you wouldn't see it. I know that is silly and not the intent (despite this being the only spell like this, for instance darkness doesn't extend beyond its range nor does silence). So the question is, how much light would escape ?

AxeMental wrote: But that is because, even at a great distance, light is still reaching your eyes (even distant stars). If light from a light spell is limited to an area of effect (that is no light leaves that area of effect) in theory you wouldn't see it. I know that is silly and not the intent (despite this being the only spell like this, for instance darkness doesn't extend beyond its range nor does silence). So the question is, how much light would escape ?

You are over thinking it. The area of effect of a light spell is the area illuminated [i.e. a 4" sphere], there is no reason to think the light generated behaves differently from that of a torch in the game [i.e. an 8" sphere].

Matthew wrote:

AxeMental wrote: But that is because, even at a great distance, light is still reaching your eyes (even distant stars). If light from a light spell is limited to an area of effect (that is no light leaves that area of effect) in theory you wouldn't see it. I know that is silly and not the intent (despite this being the only spell like this, for instance darkness doesn't extend beyond its range nor does silence). So the question is, how much light would escape ?

You are over thinking it. The area of effect of a light spell is the area illuminated [i.e. a 4" sphere], there is no reason to think the light generated behaves differently from that of a torch in the game [i.e. an 8" sphere].

Natural light gives some illumination even outside of its "effective" range (so even though the effective range of a torch or might be 30 feet, it would still make the eyes of a predator (say a cat or alligator in the dark) visible at say 70 feet). Based on how its reversal works (darkness) and every other area of effect spell (accept those effected by wind), I think it could be argued that only secondary reflected light would reach outside of the area of effect (so the light from the spell illuminates your red cape, the light from the red cape would go outside of the area of effect and be visible at a distance, while the source light wouldn't.

When I visited Carlsbad Caverns one of the things they did was turn off all the lights in a huge chamber to allow our eyes to adjust to pitch black. They then lit a single candle to show how powerful 1 candle power really was. Its incredible the range it actually illuminated things. Even though you think of its effects reaching only a few feet, in reality it illuminated things at a great distance (that is, the viewer's eyes could detect huge boulders and people more then 50 feet away).

AxeMental wrote: Natural light gives some illumination even outside of its "effective" range (so even though the effective range of a torch or might be 30 feet, it would still make the eyes of a predator (say a cat or alligator in the dark) visible at say 70 feet). Based on how its reversal works (darkness) and every other area of effect spell (accept those effected by wind), I think it could be argued that only secondary reflected light would reach outside of the area of effect (so the light from the spell illuminates your red cape, the light from the red cape would go outside of the area of effect and be visible at a distance, while the source light wouldn't.

When I visited Carlsbad Caverns one of the things they did was turn off all the lights in a huge chamber to allow our eyes to adjust to pitch black. They then lit a single candle to show how powerful 1 candle power really was. Its incredible the range it actually illuminated things. Even though you think of its effects reaching only a few feet, in reality it illuminated things at a great distance (that is, the viewer's eyes could detect huge boulders and people more then 50 feet away).

AD&D does not make that distinction even for natural light, which is why I am saying you are over thinking things. As far as the rules are concerned, a torch sheds light in a 4" radius and outside that has no effect (there are no degrees of illumination, it is either lit or dark). The same holds true of the light spell, and there is no reason to read anything more into it than that. If you can see a torch from 100' away, you can see the effects of a light spell.

Axe. Dude. Really?

It's like the native is carrying a torch. Depending on conditions, you could see the light from that torch from over a mile away.

TheRedPriest wrote:Axe. Dude. Really?

It's like the native is carrying a torch. Depending on conditions, you could see the light from that torch from over a mile away.

You guys are probably right. A look threw the art does suggest what you are saying.

This may be illuminating:

DMG page 62 wrote: Prior detection negates the possibility of surprise. Thus, magical devices can possibly negate surprise by detection of thoughts or intentions. Noise can negate surprise considerations, whether the sound is the normal progress of the party or the effect of a fruitless attempt to open a door. Light can spoil the chance of surprise.

[snip]

6. Light: The illumination factor or visual capability of the concerned
parties will affect encounter distance as follows:
A. A light source reliance limits the encounter distance to twice the normal vision radius of the source (2 X radius of the light source).
B. lnfravision and/or ultravision operate only to the stated limit of their range and limit encounter distance accordingly.