Knights & Knaves Alehouse

For the most part, I don't use random rolls, but occasionally we will have heavy random sessions. Usually I am much more generous than the rolls will be, but not always. One random treasure included a holy avenger and a sword of sharpness. Of course there were no paladins or chaotics in the party.
Most recently, one player's PC wizard decided to build a stronghold. Stocking the future barony was done with random rolls. As usual, there are odd results. First, the place is infested with gnomes; they're everywhere. One really nasty encounter was rolled up. Ogre maji, in their lair, max number present, but despite some good odds for excellent treasure, they have nothing but a couple of gems. But that's the way the random dice roll; the next randomly rolled up kobold encounter might include a crown of might.

Indeed. I'm populating the treasures for my new Castle Greyhawk level (for the SoCal MiniCon), and rolled up three different treasure maps so far, each of which are quite substantial....

I like randomly rolling for treasures (and monsters) sometimes, because it often results in me being really inspired or the players being really puzzled (and curious) or both. Plus, if the resulting roll is truly nonsensical, I can always ignore it and either place what I want or roll again.

Chainsaw wrote:I like randomly rolling for treasures (and monsters) sometimes, because it often results in me being really inspired or the players being really puzzled (and curious) or both. Plus, if the resulting roll is truly nonsensical, I can always ignore it and either place what I want or roll again.

I love treasure table rolls. Sometimes I'll generate giant hoards even though I know players will never encounter them.


I mean, I use discretion: nobody gets the Eye of Vecna or anything from a Kobold treasure pile at 1st level

thedungeondelver wrote: I mean, I use discretion: nobody gets the Eye of Vecna or anything from a Kobold treasure pile at 1st level

Why not? Gollums leave One Rings just laying around...

thedungeondelver wrote:I mean, I use discretion: nobody gets the Eye of Vecna or anything from a Kobold treasure pile at 1st level

Not to blow a one-line aside out of proportion and get all confrontational about it, but I think if I ever actually rolled a treasure like that (which I never have) rather than just immediately re-rolling or changing it to a potion of healing or something, I'd at least consider respecting the "oracular power of the dice" (to use a Maliszewskism), leaving it as is, figuring out how it got there, and letting the consequences play out (not least that there's a good chance the players would either miss it or deliberately pass it by (thinking it must be a cursed or trick item and couldn't possibly be the real thing), and even if they did manage to actually recognize it and keep it would find themselves in a world of trouble, not just from the effects of the Eye itself but from everything surrounding it (i.e. all the other Powers who want it for themselves and aren't likely to just stand by if they find out it's in the possession of a 1st level party).

And even to take a less extreme example -- a 1st level monster guarding some powerful (but not legendary or unique) magic item like a girdle of giant strength or a +4 sword or something, that kind of thing has happened in my games, and I've let it stand, and shockingly enough it didn't wreck the game and, if anything, even improved it. Yeah the character who ends up in possession of the super-item will be "unbalanced" for his level and in comparison to the other players, but he won't be immortal and will be at risk of becoming overconfident, plus it will probably create some tension and rivalry with the other players (which is always a good thing IMO), and it can also serve as an instant plot-hook -- have someone steal the item or something happen to it and you can guarantee that player's going to be personally motivated to do whatever it takes to recover it or get it repaired.

I am very unlikely to use random rolls for the generation of monsters or treasure, but I do rather like the idea for name level games. Not quite sold on how to implement it, though.

T. Foster wrote:good stuff

Just to +1 Foster, a kobold with Eye of Vecna isn't particularly different from Gollum with the One Ring. It could be very cool if done right.

I've never done it as a DM, but I did recover an artifact level crown as a 1st level fighter in an adventure once as a player. It came with about a half-dozen revived men-at-arms who thought that my character was the reincarnation of their former leader by virtue of having the crown. We didn't have an opportunity to follow up on it in the campaign, but I think it could have worked well.

okay, well, I guess I'm wrong then.

As a follow up to what Foster said I think that you do have to take into consideration the types of players you have in your game (age, maturity, etc.) and in the RL setting (is it a campaign game or is it a con game,etc.).

T. Foster wrote:

thedungeondelver wrote:I mean, I use discretion: nobody gets the Eye of Vecna or anything from a Kobold treasure pile at 1st level

Not to blow a one-line aside out of proportion and get all confrontational about it, but I think if I ever actually rolled a treasure like that (which I never have) rather than just immediately re-rolling or changing it to a potion of healing or something, I'd at least consider respecting the "oracular power of the dice" (to use a Maliszewskism), leaving it as is, figuring out how it got there, and letting the consequences play out (not least that there's a good chance the players would either miss it or deliberately pass it by (thinking it must be a cursed or trick item and couldn't possibly be the real thing), and even if they did manage to actually recognize it and keep it would find themselves in a world of trouble, not just from the effects of the Eye itself but from everything surrounding it (i.e. all the other Powers who want it for themselves and aren't likely to just stand by if they find out it's in the possession of a 1st level party).

And even to take a less extreme example -- a 1st level monster guarding some powerful (but not legendary or unique) magic item like a girdle of giant strength or a +4 sword or something, that kind of thing has happened in my games, and I've let it stand, and shockingly enough it didn't wreck the game and, if anything, even improved it. Yeah the character who ends up in possession of the super-item will be "unbalanced" for his level and in comparison to the other players, but he won't be immortal and will be at risk of becoming overconfident, plus it will probably create some tension and rivalry with the other players (which is always a good thing IMO), and it can also serve as an instant plot-hook -- have someone steal the item or something happen to it and you can guarantee that player's going to be personally motivated to do whatever it takes to recover it or get it repaired.

I'm 100% with Foster on this, 1E AD&D is a game of poker, though rare, its not impossible to get a royal flush and win big. If the dice give a +4 vorpal blade to a 1st level fighter then so be it. Its not like the guy suddenly becomes impervious to giant spider bites, falling blocks, a sleep spell and the other 101 things that can kill you at low level (chances are he (or the group) get overconfident and his new toy ends up getting him killed). At most it just makes it as if the group suddenly picked up a few extra fighters...big deal.
They just play in slightly higher modules/dungeons and this player gets to feel like a bad ass while the ride lasts (not long in this killer game). Same goes with a wand of lightning for that 1st level MU etc. That just means the group can handle more. It also means more baddies might want to get that magic for themselves. That doesn't mean I don't tweak. If a group gets zip after going threw hell, I might rerole on a table (I tend to favor redoing bad roles rather then good).

Another thing worth mentioning, magic, more then any other thing helps define a character at low levels. This stuff makes them memorable and destinct from the other 100 1st level fighters you've played over the years. "Oh yeah, that was my guy with boots of levitation and a flame tounge". This stuff isn't a big deal at high levels but at low levels it can make a cookie cutter PC into something really special and memorable (something that trumps inequality in the group). Also magic tools allow the PC to play more creatively, to think and get outside the box. Magic, and particularly powerful magic isn't a substitute for bad ass game play (luck, balls and smarts combined) but it is something to look forward to, and once had a serious rush.

1E AD&D would not be the same game without random tables being used (for wandering monster and treasure). And not using tables (just making shit up in your head) is just as important...both are needed to "own" your world as DM and to be in the 79' groove.

If you have to, think of it as an equalizer to other PCs that get lucky rolling stats, and to the DM who is constantly laying landminds out to TPK.