Knights & Knaves Alehouse

I have always been distraught by the seeming fragility of the magic-user's (non-special) familiars. I was wondering how different people handle the topic. Let's say that a magic-user has a bird, it might be flying around and out of the way of combat. However, let's say he has a toad. If the toad-carrying magic-user gets hit by an area-of-effect spell, would you say that the toad is also affected? I see a few different ways one could approach this. If the magic-user makes his save most people would probably say that the toad also automatically saves, just as if it were any other piece of equipment (anybody say different?). But which do you choose in a failed save:

1. The magic-user fails his save, but the toad gets an additional saving throw as a less than 1 hit die monster.

2. The magic-user fails his save and the toad automatically fails his save.

3. The magic-user fails his save, but the toad and other equipment are not harmed.

I have to confess that when we played AD&D back in the 80s as pretty young kids, we never took into account saving throws for items (including familiars). It wasn't willful ignorance, it was just a lot of rules to play with for kids of our age. (I was, like, 10 years old).

Now how about dragon breath and other attacks that do damage even if you make your saving throw. If the magic-user gets hit by a red dragon or similar effect even if he makes his saving throw he takes half damage (enough to kill any familiar). I think I would have the familiar die when faced with such an overwhelming attack (assuming it does more damage than the familiar has hit points, which is probably always the case), even if the magic-user survives. I think I am now also going to check the character's gear to see if it survives its encounter with fireball (which is how the DMG lists red dragon breath). BTB.

I rule that the familiar makes its own saving throws, independant of the M/U. Don't want your familiar hurt? Keep it out of harm's way, or find some means (magical or otherwise) to protect it.

- Wheggi

Wheggi wrote:I rule that the familiar makes its own saving throws, independant of the M/U. Don't want your familiar hurt? Keep it out of harm's way, or find some means (magical or otherwise) to protect it.

- Wheggi

One of the issues (possibly two) of Dragon Magazine in the early-to-mid-1990s had an article on spells that magic-users could research to enhance their familiars.

Spells that enhanced the protection or improved the life-expectancy of a familiar were a significant portion of the article.

Stick your familiar in a protective container when in harms way (or leave it hidden behind). I'm not a fan of changing this particular spell. Familiars could easily turn into something hokey, and should remain fragile risky tools. To the MU the game is about the group dynamic not his relationship with his pet owl.

I'm with wheggi, they save seperately.

To the MU the game is about the group dynamic not his relationship with his pet owl.

How a player plays his MU and his familiar is not your place even as a DM.

Tholianweb wrote:

To the MU the game is about the group dynamic not his relationship with his pet owl.

How a player plays his MU and his familiar is not your place even as a DM.

How the rest of us conduct our game is not for you to dictate, not even as a random guy on the Internet.

francisca wrote:

Tholianweb wrote:

To the MU the game is about the group dynamic not his relationship with his pet owl.

How a player plays his MU and his familiar is not your place even as a DM.

How the rest of us conduct our game is not for you to dictate, not even as a random guy on the Internet.

First off, WTFE


I am not dictating how anyone runs a game HOWEVER if you tell players to stop playing the character he/she DESIRES to as they want, then your role as a DM has crossed the line to the point where a certain element of fun is taken out.

As was posted in another thread, my groups are not fun to play in because I do not allow alcohol and pot at the table. So go figure.

I think the intent was the non-special familiars only be involved for the first 2-3 levels and after that get left at home, because with AC 8 and 2-4 hp it's obviously not going to last long and the risk of permanent hp loss more than outweighs the benefits they provide. If the familiar is present, I'd have it roll separate saving throws.

Tholianweb wrote:I do not allow alcohol and pot at the table.

How about feet?

I always tended to treat familiars as being "outside of the mechanics" to some extent. I think I picked it up from Saberhagen's fantasy trilogy - the familiars would just sort of slip into a fold of the wizard's robe or something and not get effected by (say) the fireball that just went off. So thinking back about it, I guess they had some degree of immunity - BUT - they's almost always get blasted to smithereens in the presence of demons, devils, powerful magic creatures... totally not by the book. Sorry, just realized that.

Familiars are just too fragile btb and I have no understanding why they are but oh well.

I tell my players who want a familiar good luck because I play my encounters intelligently as the players do themselves. If the enemy sees a familiar flying around, they will certainly target it if the opportunity is there.

Familiars will be supceptible to area of effect spells and they make a seperate saving throw.

Tholianweb wrote:
First off, WTFE


I am not dictating how anyone runs a game HOWEVER if you tell players to stop playing the character he/she DESIRES to as they want, then your role as a DM has crossed the line to the point where a certain element of fun is taken out.

As was posted in another thread, my groups are not fun to play in because I do not allow alcohol and pot at the table. So go figure.

Tholianweb wrote:

To the MU the game is about the group dynamic not his relationship with his pet owl.

How a player plays his MU and his familiar is not your place even as a DM.

I'm talking about the way it was designed to be played (reread my post). Of course, no one can stop a player from doing anything.

My impulse would be to keep it simple, in that if the MU makes his save his familiar does too, otherwise he will have to keep it safe in a familiar-cozy of holding.

One way to keep standard familiars in the game is to give the familiar the MU's HP, just as the MU gets the familiar's HP, within the same range ( within 12" ). It's worked pretty well for me since I started playing 1e again a few years ago.