Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Did Gary Gygax or anybody else give a reason why in AD&D it is 10 coins per pound? When you look at any historical examples they are all at least 10 times lighter. In my own campaign I use 250 coins per pound and even with the lighter weight the party have to get some mules in in order to haul out the bigger hoards.

Gravity is 1/10th, though. I forgot what page it's on.

To the best of my knowledge, no concrete reason was ever supplied, probably just for simplicity. Even by the time of Yggsburgh Gygax was using 1/16 of a pound. That said, ancient and medieval coins varied in weight considerably, and even 1/10 of a pound is not completely beyond credibility in terms of extant examples. Luckily I assembled a document to accompany this short article that should do most of the heavy lifting for me (pun intended) in terms of examples: Yggsburgh Coinage. I usually go with 4.5 grams or 100 coins to the pound, as that is a convenient weight that connects with the gold solidus.

Interesting question. My guess is that it was because coins were bigger and meatier then those in antiquity. Also IRL if your discovering ancient treasure it seems coins would vary alot in size and quality and they apparently don't in 1E ( A GP is a GP from today or 10,000 years ago). Or am I missing something?

Honestly, I just always figured it was because the math was easy.

Matthew's document was helpful to me. You might also wish to check out this thread as well...http://knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/view ... lit=silver

Although it makes for easy math, it's just not practical to have 10 coins to the pound.

Look at it this way: you walk into a tavern and pay for your beer using a Gold Piece. The beer costs 5CP. You receive 5 CP and 19 SP in change. That's just slightly less than two and a half pounds of change.
You put the coins in your belt pouch and walk home. By the time you get there, it's likely your pants will have fallen down around your ankles, and you'll likely need chiropractic care from the excess weight on one side.
And pity the poor tavernkeeper, who has to walk to the bank with the night's receipts. He's going to need a wheelbarrow.

The US quarter ($0.25 coin) weighs in at 80/pound. This seems a reasonable weight for a coin in D&D, but the math isn't very convenient (can you divide by 80 in your head?).

Using coins that weigh in at 100/pound is reasonable and the math is just as easy as 10/pound. Just move the decimal point two places instead of one.

The British gold guinea came in at about three coins to the ounce, which is near enough to 50 to the pound (for the sake of keeping things arithmetically simple). The gold sovereign was a little lighter, but only a little, while the Spanish doubloon was lighter still (about 6.5 grams) up until the middle of the 19th century when it increased in weight to about the same as the guinea.

MojoBob wrote: The British gold guinea came in at about three coins to the ounce, which is near enough to 50 to the pound (for the sake of keeping things arithmetically simple). The gold sovereign was a little lighter, but only a little, while the Spanish doubloon was lighter still (about 6.5 grams) up until the middle of the 19th century when it increased in weight to about the same as the guinea.

The Roman aureus also came in at around c. 9.0 grams, basically because it was the same size as the early silver denarius of c. 4.5 grams. More than likely that is why it became 50 to the pound in second edition, but whatever the case the gold florin and solidus nicely come in at about 100-120 to the pound. The unsuccessful English gold penny weighed about 3.0 grams [i.e. twice as much as the nominal weight of the silver penny at 1.5 grams). As Stik says, though, 100 is the obvious choice, but whatever is done the "GP" is only a nominal weight itself.

The system I personally use is based on these assumption

The value of silver to gold is 20 to 1
Everyday coins weigh 1/240 of a pound
A coin can weigh 1 ounce at 16 to a pound

I use four coins with two of them far more common.
The basic coin is 1 silver penny which I abbreviate to d (denarius) 24d is 24 silver. To ease the math I tell players to calculate the weight at 250 to the pound.
The Gold Crown which is an one ounce gold coin worth 320d. (16 silver coins per ounce times 20, the value ratio between gold and silver).

The two uncommon coins are
The gold penny worth 20d and the same weight as a silver penny.
The silver mark worth 240d, a 1 pound silver bar.
Gold pennies were minted by elves and dwarves are found in ancient treasure hordes left by those races.
Silver marks are used in place of Gold Crowns in some of the cultures of the Wilderlands.

I use the Harn Price list and found that AD&D price list, in silver pieces, is close enough. I find that having one base coin and one really valuable coins adds more to the game than the traditional AD&D system. The really valuable coins generally produces the wow factor that is lacking with gold pieces or even platinum pieces.

As a point of interest, it might even be easier on your players if instead you went with 300 to the pound (7,000 grains) as the Tower Pound (5,400 grains) and Trojan Pound (5,760 grains) are what the historical 240 pennies to the Sterling Pound are based on, rather than our modern Avoirdupois Pound. Interestingly, there are 160 pennies to the "Mark", which was equivalent to half a Merchant Pound (3,600, 7,200 grains). It is quite revealing to see the different standards set out:

Tower Pound (12 ounces) = 5400 grains, Tower Ounce = 450 grains
Tower Pound (15 ounces) = 6750 grains, Tower Ounce = 450 grains
London Pound (15 ounces) = 7200 grains, London Ounce = 480 grains
Merchant Pound (16 ounces) = 7200 grains, Merchant Ounce = 450 grains
Trojan Pound (12 ounces) = 5760 grains, Trojan Ounce = 480 grains
Modern Pound (16 ounces) = 7000 grains, Modern Once = 437.5 grains
German Mark (8 ounces) = 3840 grains, German Ounce = 480 grains
Cologne Mark (8 ounces) = 3600 grains, Cologne Ounce = 450 grains

Merchant Pound (16 ounces) = 7680 grains, Merchant Ounce = 480 grains (Henry VII)

robertsconley wrote:Did Gary Gygax or anybody else give a reason why in AD&D it is 10 coins per pound? When you look at any historical examples they are all at least 10 times lighter. In my own campaign I use 250 coins per pound and even with the lighter weight the party have to get some mules in in order to haul out the bigger hoards.

It had nothing to do with reality and everything to do with making it more difficult for characters to get the treasure out of the dungeon. Finding the horde was only half the battle. You don't get your xp until you get it back to civilization.