Knights & Knaves Alehouse

darnizhaan wrote:See the thing is, I don't see why a high level character (pc or npc) would lose hit points and attack capability by becoming a superbad vampire. Same with saving throws and so on. The MM text implies that even newly created vampires can have standard classes (it mentions thieves and clerics), so if they can have their spells and their thieving abilities (vampire with backstab) they should, imo, keep their character class hit dice, saving throw, etc. if it benefits them. Now if they are less powerful, say a first, third, or even seventh level character, they should get the vampiric 8+3 HD and special saves because those go with the vampire powers and are the same that any unwashed peasant would get if they became a vampire.

By the way, how about liches. We know they have to have mastered the 18th level of magic use (9d4+9 or more hit points), but have 11+ hit dice. I was trying to make up a m-u level to lich hit die conversion but haven't got very far. I remember there was a lich in one of the 'D' modules, I need to look that up.

IIRC it's D1. (It seemed kind of a lame encounter for a lich to be just hanging around in a cave.)

Clangador wrote:It seemed kind of a lame encounter for a lich to be just hanging around in a cave.)

I agree! Interesting, high end monsters should be highlights, not filler!

But oh what fantastic filler he is! Asberdies is a sucker punch, and the highlight of that otherwise lukewarm module.

- Wheggi

Wheggi wrote:But oh what fantastic filler he is! Asberdies is a sucker punch, and the highlight of that otherwise lukewarm module.

- Wheggi

Actually, you're quite right. A halfway decent DM can turn an otherwise bland encounter into a heck of a lot more. In hindsight, there've been many such encounters over the years that turned from a throwaway into a much longer term part of my campaigns.

Those sorts of things scream for DM elaboration and creativity!

Interesting choice of spells for Bael. I'd have gone for stuff that works with the vampires' abilities:

Jump: Cast on his mistresses prior to combat so they can quickly get to "soft targets" (such as the MU)- like the replicant chick in Bladerunner.
Tenser's Floating Disk (like a boat across running water)
Push (to use against holy symbols, stakes and such)
Shatter (again holy symbols and such)
Stinking cloud (undead are immune, someone will fail a save)
Magic mouth (charm a henchmen, then leave a Magic mouth trigger around his lair, perhaps near a trap)
Haste: so it ages him 2 years, he's dead! I probably would allow double rate level-draining though.
Hold Person (combined with Haste and level draining vampires=nasty)
Dig (not so much in a dungeon but for surface vampires handy towards sunrise) Bael and companions can be 5ft deep in one round, and reach 60ft underground by the end of the spell
Fire-trap (false coffins)
Plant growth (effects are permanent so a good way to secure lairs and common haunts without taking up spell slots)
Animate dead: disguise a bunch of zombies as vampires whether with make-up/taxidermy or phantasmal force, bear in mind that animated dead lasts forever, and carefully preserved they wouldn't actually use up any spell slots.

For higher level vampire MUs a whole bunch of Permanent spells on themselves and henchmen


Add a couple of scrolls: guards and wards, part-water, potion of fire-resistance,

Cool. Maybe I will amp him up!

Just realized my killer typo "I probably would allow double-rate level draining" I meant to say "wouldn't".

My normal paranoia of vampires has just been notched up several levels by reading this.