Knights & Knaves Alehouse

I can't remember off the top of my head how magic stacks (magic plate, magic ring of protection, etc.). If you limit this to say a 19 dex (possible for an elf) and listed magic in the DMG whats the lowest you can make it)?

I don't have any hard numbers, and I'd need to research it, but for some reason -10 sticks out in my mind as the ceiling, er, basement for AC. Is it because it's the lowest AC I've seen? Maybe. It's just the number I have lodged in my dome.

- Wheggi

If there were only some very simple way to research the answer to this question.

Can we at least all agree Chainmail has no bearing on this question? Anyways, IMO certain monster ACs could go lower with spells/items. What's the lowest PC armor class... good question!

Well, Dexterity 19 gives a -4 defensive adjustment, just like 18, I believe. Both plate mail +5 and a shield +5 exist. In combination, these give AC -12. Most other AC-enhancing items, like rings of protection, cloaks of protection, and bracers of defense don't work in conjunction with (most) armor. So, barring the effects of artifacts/relics or reality-warping magic like wishes, I think -12 is about the lowest AC possible, though there may be a couple obscure and/or situational items that can lower it further.

James Maliszewski wrote:Well, Dexterity 19 gives a -4 defensive adjustment, just like 18, I believe. Both plate mail +5 and a shield +5 exist. In combination, these give AC -12. Most other AC-enhancing items, like rings of protection, cloaks of protection, and bracers of defense don't work in conjunction with (most) armor. So, barring the effects of artifacts/relics or reality-warping magic like wishes, I think -12 is about the lowest AC possible, though there may be a couple obscure and/or situational items that can lower it further.

I was thinking along these lines as well.

I think I had -10 AC stuck in my head because of ol' what's her name.

- Wheggi

Wheggi wrote:I think I had -10 AC stuck in my head because of ol' what's her name.

Lolth? Yeah, I don't recall any creature in AD&D having an armor class lower than -10 and, of course, the DMG combat matrices go from 10 to -10, so it only makes sense that that number would stick in the mind. Mind you, how often has anyone ever seen an 18 Dexterity character wearing plate mail +5 and carrying a shield +5 to boot?

AFAIK there's theoretically no limit to how low AC can go (the tables only go to -10 but AFAIK there's nothing in the books establishing that as a hard limit). I remember reading once somewhere some ridiculous combination of items, spells, and stats that could get a character down to AC -20-something (+5 full plate, +5 shield, +6 defender sword, Dex 25, cloak of displacement, etc.).

T. Foster wrote:(+5 full plate, +5 shield, +6 defender sword, Dex 25, cloak of displacement, etc.).

Yes, that reminds me: a cloak of displacement provides a +2 AC bonus and a +4 defender could lower AC by more, so that suggests AC -18 is possible, though unlikely, using only the DMG's selection of magic items.

DMG, p. 73 mentions the possibility of extending the charts to cope with armour classes out of the typical range. I quite like the convenience of "full plate +5" and a "shield +5" topping out at AC −10.

Does anybody here basically cap ACs at -10?

Play with high enough level characters and you've basically got to allow monsters to have ACs lower than -10.

Dex 18 with plate mail +5, shield +5, boots of speed, cloak of displacement, and +4 defender gets you to -20 with DMG items.

wasnt there a rule somewhere where after -10 it took basically x amount more of ac to go to -11. i dont know what rulebook but i swear there was a rule.