Knights & Knaves Alehouse

I recall some of the dragons can take human form (don't recall which anddon't have my books handy). Was always a really odd idea (why human?) did this come from some legend that Gygax used? Its a WTF kinda thing IMHO.

AxeMental wrote:I recall some of the dragons can take human form (don't recall which anddon't have my books handy). Was always a really odd idea (why human?) did this come from some legend that Gygax used? Its a WTF kinda thing IMHO.

Gold dragons, for sure, possibly others. The dragons-in-human-form is, IRC, present in chinese myth and legend, which fits with the serpentine gold dragon (draco orientalus sino dux). I'm assuming that is where gygax got the idea, and based on the "roadrunner style" zoological classification, I'm betting I'm right.

I'm cool with it, but much like the drow it has become cliche and can very easily be abused if a DM isn't careful. I can't count how many times I've played games where I was being led by the nose by a silver dragon disguised as a benevolent old man . . .

- Wheggi

In AD&D, it's gold and silver dragons who regularly assume human form in order to observe and/or help non-dragons. That's straight out of Chinese myth, as Francisca notes. I've never had a problem with it as such, but I've never really made much use of it either, mostly because dragons are nearly mythical in my campaign rather than commonplace. If I did make use of it, I'd do my best to make even benevolent dragons in human form alien and inscrutable. Nothing's more dull than a dragon who thinks and behaves like a mere mortal.

AxeMental wrote:Its a WTF kinda thing IMHO.

I completely disagree. Dragons in human form are awesome. It just shouldn't be trivialized or done in a lame way when it's used. It comes down to the DM's skill in using them.

Also, I took Weapon Specialization (Dragon Riding), bitches.

Not a big fan of it myself, but it does not particularly bother me either way; creatures transforming into other creatures is pretty standard fantasy fare.

Odhanan wrote:

AxeMental wrote:Its a WTF kinda thing IMHO.

I completely disagree. Dragons in human form are awesome. It just shouldn't be trivialized or done in a lame way when it's used. It comes down to the DM's skill in using them.

Also, I took Weapon Specialization (Dragon Riding), bitches.

I wasn't meaning it was a bad idea, only odd (why single out humans). But the other posts concerning legend cleared that up.

I've done the whole "gold dragon in human form in the tavern" thing once, but I made him act like a guy who was full-on shitfaced. When the characters talked to him he said (very loudly) "SSSHHHHHH!! Doan tell NO ONE but Imma draaagon. A BIG dragon!! Wit 'cales an wings shit like that. IT'S A SECRET!!! kay? ynat gonna tell ennyone right? SHHHHHH! I . . . I. ammmmmmmmma DRAGON! Ill eatcha up. I do that. I got big teef and a . . . an a tail. shh shh shh rar . . .". Party bought him a drink and went on to look for someone that would be more helpful, unaware they just conversed with one of the more powerful creatures in my campaign world at the time.

Unfortunately every time I've run into dragons in disguise as a player they're always old men or elf chicks.

- Wheggi

I had a blue dragon who would take human form and play a sort of Machiavelli/Rasputin role for various human rulers. For some reason, he found human politics utterly fascinating and found all sorts of glee in manipulating noble families and dynasties. No one knew he was a dragon, but he had intense blue eyes and tended to wear sapphire blue robes.

He was just a background character in a campaign who may have been used as a proposed seneschal/adviser type if a pc ever got to the point where he was a land-holder.

He was called "The Blue Sage" to his face and "The Blue Devil" behind his back.

Wheggi wrote:Unfortunately every time I've run into dragons in disguise as a player they're always old men or elf chicks.

Which proves those DMs should all have their Dragonlance books taken away (Fizban = old man platinum-dragon-in-disguise; don't remember the name of the elf chick silver-dragon-in-disguise but that's her on the cover of DL7).

T. Foster wrote:

Wheggi wrote:Unfortunately every time I've run into dragons in disguise as a player they're always old men or elf chicks.

Which proves those DMs should all have their Dragonlance books taken away (Fizban = old man platinum-dragon-in-disguise; don't remember the name of the elf chick silver-dragon-in-disguise but that's her on the cover of DL7).

Absolutely. That's all bullshit.

How about a Dragon taking the shape of a hobbit?

There was a red dragon in Baldur's Gate that was taking on the shape of a human (I think that was BG2 actually) and basically hiring the group to clean up a keep somewhere, but this was actually the Lord of the place himself, a super-powerful ancient red who wanted to lure the party in his lair and kill them all before they could become powerful enough to kill him. Which I thought was both classic and very cool at the same time - the bad guy actually engaging in a preemptive strike against a party of adventurers starting to get reknown in the region. In the end of the overall game, you *might* be able to go back to his lair and finish him, but he's one of the toughest opponents of the whole game, with an awesome reward however, if you have a paladin in the group (Holy Avenger).

EDIT - his name was Lord Jierdan Firkraag, and the area was the Windspear Hills, in BG2.

It's OK when gods do it but dragons? Sheesh! The audacity!!!

Only once have I used a dragon in human form. It was for less than pleasant reasons as far as my players were concerned. I have however had more than one occasion where a dragon has used polymorph self to change into other things.

Odhanan wrote:How about a Dragon taking the shape of a hobbit?

That was my thought about Ursula Le Guin's Mr. Underhill (in "The Rule of Names").