Knights & Knaves Alehouse

by creatures of a magical nature or with great strength.

Hrm....

What have you guys considered as "great strength" and do you know of any other types of creatures with similar magic, magical nature, great strength "vulnerabilities"?

joe b.

Probably related to the rules for monsters attacking other monsters, which I think is discussed in either the elemental or golem entries in the Monster Manual. I think the standard is ogres, so monsters with HD 4+1 or more.

Yeah, that's a footnote to the Monsters Attacking table in the DMG -- monsters with 4+1 or more HD can hit creatures normally only struck by +1 or better weapons, progressively higher HD monsters can hit creatures normally only struck by progressively better weapons. I assume those references in the MM are to the same concept (which maybe hadn't been formalized yet since the MM preceded the DMG by close to 2 years).

I kept thinking it was about actual strength and that seemed really odd to me. Viewing strength as meaning HD makes much more sense, IMO.

joe b.

or this...

*The number in parentheses is the number of chances out of six for the fighter to be able to force open a locked, barred, magically held, or wizard locked
door, but only one attempt ever (per door) may be made, and if it fails no further attempts can succeed (9 PHB.)

Great strength and magically held doors, great strength and magical creatures. However, if humans are not considered creatures (unlike monsters as a term), then I would go with the Matthew's ogre, but I think this muddies the water a little.

So much depends on HD as far as monsters are concerned. It's easily the most important descriptive factor that deserves the most careful attention when building your own...

You have to look closely at those MM entries, too. For example, elementals can be hit by anything with 4 hit dice, even though it requires a +2 weapon do hit them. It also gives a list of what is considered a 'special; ability that would allow you to hit an elemnental even if you did not have 4 HD (poison, paralyzation, etc.) so theoretically ghouls and giant centipedes could hit them. Golems require a monster of similar hit dice (9 for flesh, 11 for clay, 14 for stone, 18 for iron) to do damage to them. All this was cleaned up and slightly altered for DMG, p 75.

For the salamander, it looks like you would need a 4+ HD or have a special magic power (like being an imp or pseudo-dragon or something).

darnizhaan wrote:You have to look closely at those MM entries, too. For example, elementals can be hit by anything with 4 hit dice, even though it requires a +2 weapon do hit them. It also gives a list of what is considered a 'special; ability that would allow you to hit an elemnental even if you did not have 4 HD (poison, paralyzation, etc.) so theoretically ghouls and giant centipedes could hit them. Golems require a monster of similar hit dice (9 for flesh, 11 for clay, 14 for stone, 18 for iron) to do damage to them. All this was cleaned up and slightly altered for DMG, p 75.

For the salamander, it looks like you would need a 4+ HD or have a special magic power (like being an imp or pseudo-dragon or something).

Wow! Nice find, I don't think I've ever noticed or read taht.

You know, I think a worthy project for this site might be to index the DMG. Further, I think we should delineate entries in the DMG which clear up/expand on rules in the MM and PHB, possibly listing further contributions from UA (and cited as such, for those who don't care for that particular tome).

Doubtless, much of this has been discussed here, DF, and other places, and perhaps the index of AD&D discussions over at DF would be a good place to start, dated though it is.

Also, it takes 6 HD to hit a lich.