Page 1 of 2
Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:31 pm
by AxeMental
Was designing a room tonight in a small dungeon and had a crevice that PCs might try to jump (in or out of combat). I was wondering if the DMG or any other source gives advice on how to deal with jumping distances (related to encumbrance and armor) for instance, would a 10 foot pit (with solid clear ground on either side) be something a person wearing leather armor could jump across (what about plate)? Obviously, there are mitigating circumstances that effect clearing a pit or crevice etc. and this is a DMs call. I'm just trying to stay in the realm of realism. Does Gygax give any indication of race strides (which might be applied to jumping distances (if a halflings stride is 1/2 that of human's, he might jump at 50% of a human).
Anyway, curious if those who do re-enactment (P&P, Matt, Sean etc.) might have some feedback and or real world sources that might help.
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:16 pm
by foxroe
I seem to recall that there was something in the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide (I don't have it handy). But I'm not sure that that qualifies as official or not...
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:21 pm
by AxeMental
Yeah, I'm looking for something from the DMG or an early TSR module even, as a guide.
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:27 pm
by Lord Cias
I'm not a very athletic guy and I just now cleared about 7' with a short running start (about 12')
My gut judgement would be to say that with a good running start anyone can easily (i.e. automatically successful, no roll needed) jump a distance equal to 1/2 their normal movement rate in feet. So someone in leather could easily clear 6' while someone in plate could jump 3'. Add to that strength modifiers, perhaps +1 foot for strength 11-13, +2 feet for strength 14-16, and +3 feet for strength 17-18. With at least a 20' running start this can be extended by another few feet, perhaps 1d6-1 extra feet for a move rate of 12", 1d4-1 extra feet for a move rate of 9", and 1d2-1 extra feet for a movement rate of 6".
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:28 pm
by Lord Cias
I don't think there is anything in the DMG, and I'm not sure about any modules. But the UA does have rules for running long jumps, high jumps, and standing broad jumps.
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:28 pm
by sepulchre
Axe, here's what I use:
Jumping: [adapted from The D&D Encyclopedia (compilation of classic and other material]
a. Vertical: 1/3 of mapping dungeon movement/rd. (10' starting run)
b. Running long: mapping dungeon movement/rd. (10' starting run)
c. Standing long: ½ mapping dungeon movement/rd
Example: An unencumbered character could make a running long jump of 12' or a standing long jump of 6', a running high or vertical jump of 4', and a standing high or vertical jump of 2' . These distances are the maximum most characters will be able to achieve.
Note: makes monks interesting too.
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:56 pm
by foxroe
Here's the DSG text (although honestly, I think the previous suggestions were better):
JUMPING FOR NON-ACROBATS
Underground obstacles such as chasms and pits are also frequently encountered by subterranean explorers. Occasionally, a repugnant monster such as a black pudding can be avoided if a character simply jumps over it.
Characters of all classes have a limited ability to jump across obstacles that get in the way. The procedure for all characters is the same as that given for acrobats on page 24 of Unearthed Arcana; to wit, a running broad jump requires a 20-foot head start, and all jumps require only one segment of time. Unlike acrobats, however, other characters cannot attempt to jump backward or leap in an extended position. Use the following table and jumping modifiers to determine the distance a character can jump.
Broad Jumping
Level of/ Standing Broad/ Running Broad
Character/ Jump/ Jump
1-6/ 1d4+1 ft/ 1d4+5 ft
7-9/ 1d4+2 ft/ 1d4+6 ft
10-12/ 1d6+2 ft/ 1d6+5 ft
13-15/ 1d6+3 ft/ 1d6+6 ft
16-18/ 1d6+4 ft/ 1d6+9 ft
19-22/ 1d6+5 ft/ 1d6+12 ft
23+/ 1d6+6 ft/ 1d6+15 ft
Jumping Modifiers
The following factors reduce the distance that a character can jump. In no case can modifiers shorten a jump to less than two feet.
Encumbrance: Unencumbered characters and characters carrying normal gear have no penalties to their jumping abilities. Characters carrying heavy gear subtract one foot from the distance of their jumps; characters with very heavy gear subtract two feet from their jumping distance, and encumbered characters subtract four feet.
Race: Humans, elves, and half-orcs suffer no racial penalty on a jump. Halflings must subtract one foot from their total distance, and dwarves and gnomes must subtract two feet.
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:08 am
by Joe Mac
Within the realm of realism...any remotely decent athlete (to include most adventurers) is going to be able to jump a lot more than 10 feet with a running start, if not encumbered. An adventurer with above average scores in strength and dex, in leather armor, I wouldn't even require a roll to clear a 10' pit.
I'm talking about humans, though. Shorter races vs. a 10' pit, I'd assign a probability on the fly, based on their attribute scores.
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:54 am
by Ghul
Being somewhat athletic (or at least thin and fit for pushing 40) I recently demonstrated this for my group after a healthy debate on whether it could or could not be done. With a backpack of D&D books and wearing a leather jacket, I ran about 10-12 feet and cleared a distance of 12 feet. We surmised that any unencumbered adventurer should be able to do it with a running start.
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:30 am
by geneweigel
Lord Cias wrote:I don't think there is anything in the DMG, and I'm not sure about any modules. But the UA does have rules for running long jumps, high jumps, and standing broad jumps.
I've referred to the UA for it since then (always) however something else "unofficial" from Dragon prior to UA (1984) was this:
You Can Jump HOW Far? OK, Prove It! by Kevin Thompson (DRAGON MAGAZINE #45 January 1981) The thief acrobat by Gygax in
A "Split Class" For Nimble Characters: The Thief-Acrobat(DRAGON MAGAZINE #69 January 1983) seems to be a reaction to this article.
NOTE: The Gygax article DOES NOT address regular characters. AT the end of the article is a passing note on Falling damage (a reapproach) then it says that it will be covered next issue. Next Issue has "Falling Damage" by Frank Mentzer (DRAGON MAGAZINE #70 February 1983) and does not talk about jumping either however the pieces in UA must have been on Mentzer's watch so if anything you can take his word with a grain of salt. Mentzer's "Master set Mystic" had acrobatics with all abilities (including jumping as a generic percentile versus ability times 3 but thats AGAIN class specific and like I said with a grain of salt.)
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:48 am
by geneweigel
I just thought that I'd add as an interesting aside that my friend has been playing Ludwig the Thief Acrobat every chance that he's got since January 1986 so these thing came up all the time when others wanted to "follow him". We had trouble converting characters to 2e so thats why we never really played it as true as we played Gygax AD&D because of this particular character, his illusionist, several cavaliers, my character Grok and other barbarians just didn't fit in, etc.
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:54 am
by T. Foster
UA's guidelines are simple and straightforward: high jump 3' with at least 20' running start, standing broad jump 4' (land prone, 1 round to recover), running (at least 20') long jump 8' (land prone, 1 round to recover) which can be extended up to 5' further with increasing chance of failure, adjustments for race and strength, can only be attempted by Unencumbered (12" move class) characters. Acrobats and barbarians have different rules -- barbarians have a flat roll for distance that allowds running long jumps of up to 21', acrobats increase jumping distance by level and have quicker recovery time (and, although it's not in the book, I'd tend to rule that monks can jump as acrobats of their level +5 (so a 1st level monk jumps as a 6th level acrobat, and a 17th level monk jumps as a 22nd level acrobat, etc.)).
People seem to grouse about these rules a lot, that they don't allow characters to jump far enough, but they work well enough for me, especially considering that most in-game jumps are going to be made in less-than-ideal conditions (uneven ground, bad lighting, wounded, etc.).
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:51 pm
by AxeMental
Foster, I vaguely remember those now that you mention them (and they are as confusing as I recall). They seemed designed to help define the new classes and go to far rather then clarify a simple question (what could a person realistically jump with and without equipment). In any event the listed jumping distances seem conservative to what others are saying they can do IRL (as you point out). And 60 seconds to recover? That seems pretty stiff. I really think UA doesn't jive well with the DMG philosophy (DM discretion with some guidance, generalized rather then class specific -the assumption being that conditions are taken into account) The rest time, the distances, seem too rulesy or something...too set in stone for 1E. Of course, compared to 3E they are nothing.
Still another UA thing I don't like.
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:14 pm
by foxroe
But why even have a rule for it? Make it fun...
Fage: "Looks like a pit 10' across, boys. [to DM] Can we jump across it?"
DM: "Maybe, it's hard to tell"
Fage: "Alright then, I'll have my mule... er... henchman jump across first."
DM: "OK. He gives himself a few feet running start, and leaps from the edge of the pit, arms windmilling. However, he just misses the other side, crashing into the opposite wall. He falls screaming into the darkness. There's a loud crunch and clatter, then silence."
Fage: "You're kidding me, right?"
DM: "Nope. Looks like he was probably carrying too much."
Fage: "Crap! My stuff!" [chuckling from the other players]
Kexy: "We should be able to do this no problem. Think about Olympic long-jumpers..."
DM: "Yeah, but you guys aren't 'Olympic'."
Kexy: "You're right, we're Adventurers, so we're better!" [a resounding "boo-ya!" from the other players] Step aside fella's. I take off my plate mail and back pack, tie them together, and throw them across to the other side. Then, I give myself a good 10' head start and jump across."
DM: "You, and your stuff, make it across. There's a funny smell coming from the pit."
Fage: [groans]
DM: [Rolls for a wandering monster because of all of the noise that the party is making -- looks like some hobgoblins are taking interest...]
Kexy: [hearing the DM rolling dice] "Shoot! I think somethings coming. I put on my armor and yell across the pit for them to throw me the Dwarf..."
Re: Jumping across a pit/crevice
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:22 pm
by Matthew
With a decent run up, 12' seems reasonable to me. Maybe add dexterity reaction bonus for unencumbered characters. using a character's movement rate as the base value would seem a good start (after accounting for armour), with some sort of variable factor. With regard to literary antecedents, apparently Pippin jumped a crack of seven feet in Moria, which was the longest they had to manage there [LotR, p. 329]. If a worthless Hobbit can do it, then so can my plate armoured fighter... wait, no, that is a 6" movement rate.... arggghhhhhh! *splat*
