Knights & Knaves Alehouse

After looking at Robertscolony illo of Emirkul the Wizard booking it down some cobble street blasting away with spells, it made me wonder, was this simply an illustration and not meant to represent actual game play, or was there some notion that at some point high level MUs could start casting perhaps quick and simple spells from horseback?

What amount of movement do you allow your spell casters to engage in to cast spells (btb I believe casters loose dex bonus while casting, though Gygax mentions he allowed spell casters to keep it while casting, so that they might move and dodge a thrown spear but still cast) and what sort of saves might you employ to see if the spell can be cast given conditions (casting from a boat in rolling waves, perhaps from the back of a horse (walking, cantering, Etc).

I picture it as once the spell caster pulls out his material no serious jarring can occur to interrupt his movements or concentration. I also think being a higher level spell caster would improve your chances in lousy conditions (having them role petrification for instance in adverse conditions reflects level advancement rather then say dex). Am curious to know how others deal with this.

I would speculate it is artistic license, but if rationalisation were desired, then perhaps Emirikol is employing a magical device. Typically, I do not allow spell casters to move and cast a spell at the same time, but am not completely inflexible in that regard. A good example of a spell that must surely be imagined as cast whilst in motion would be feather fall.

And what DM has the cajones to tell Emerikol what he can and can't do?

But yeah he's breakin' the rules. I'd say its forbidden to PC's if I was strictly following the rules.

More likely in play I'd forget those details entirely. And if I had flying mounts for some reason, I'd toss the rules out the window deliberately, because lobbing off spells from your hippogriffs, griffins, dragons, etc, is more fun than making a forced landing first.

Personally, I allow spell casters to cast from the back of warhorse which are sitting still. Other horses are too flighty with battle going on about them to remain a stable platform.

I went the "magical device" route:

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... 42&t=29664

Ring of Spell Storing would be my guess...

I think the deal here is that genuine old school people (like those who wrote the books as well as their illustrators) were a lot less hung up on rigorous "Ordnung muss Sein!" adherence to rules as written than the ultraorthodoxy that makes up the Alehouse.

Kind of like how Jesus might have a few words to say to modern-day Christians, only with D&D.

Premier wrote:I think the deal here is that genuine old school people (like those who wrote the books as well as their illustrators) were a lot less hung up on rigorous "Ordnung muss Sein!" adherence to rules as written than the ultraorthodoxy that makes up the Alehouse.

Kind of like how Jesus might have a few words to say to modern-day Christians, only with D&D.

I think you're mistaking discussion, in a "Theory and Philosophy" forum I'd like to point out, for actual practice.

I categorically reject the "ultraorthodox" label, and if you don't find my word to be good enough, I invite you to make it to GaryCon or Gencon and play in a game with me.

Premier wrote:I think the deal here is that genuine old school people (like those who wrote the books as well as their illustrators) were a lot less hung up on rigorous "Ordnung muss Sein!" adherence to rules as written than the ultraorthodoxy that makes up the Alehouse.

Kind of like how Jesus might have a few words to say to modern-day Christians, only with D&D.

Besides just being a place to hang out, the alehouse is about 1. supporting 1E and 0E, 2. clarifying the rules as presented in the three core books for the most part (including setting, and advice on how to play from the early days (pre-fall of Gygax) and 3. maintaining the philosophy that the game was meant to played under (circa 78-81 or so), kinda what your talking about. Just because we don't want the game to drift in definition (nailing down the rules the best we can), doesn't mean we don't encourage the DM to play by the suggested philosophy of the game (ie. as DM use common sense alot of the time, take control of your world and game, feel free to house-rule some, actually this advice from Gygax is part of the rules system).

There are core principles to 1E certainly (and some combination of those should be adhered to or your no longer playing 1E) but I think most here would agree it is in the spirit of the game to allow the DM to bend on something like casting in different conditions (which effects both the power and appearance of the spell caster archetype). The key is the DM knows he is using a house rule, rather then thinking he's playing btb, or that such and such rules are totally arbitrary (which they are not, they are very important, fuck with at your own risk). How much the DM wants to bend is up to him and more importantly his players who will walk if it starts not feeling right. If it were me, I'd scoff at the idea of a MU being able to cast from a running horse without at least some sort of difficulty role made up on the spot (DM arbitrarily tells player, sure you can try to cast MM on this walking horse, role this percentile dice, you have a 10% of pulling it off (or whatever his judgement warrants).

So anyway, the comparison to Modern Christians couldn't be farther from the truth (flexibility in house ruling is part of the games instructions after all, orthodoxy is actually not that important (compared to feel and setting), but knowing your point of departure from the instructions as written ls just like in any other game, be it Chess, Risk or what have you.)

simrion wrote:Ring of Spell Storing would be my guess...

A good guess (and he may have one). But something tells me this bad boy is just gifted. Remember too, as an NPC/monster this guy isn't held to all the rules that bound the PC (ie he may be the one exception). Perhaps his chaotic-bad-assness gives him that special edge.

This is capable 10 zillion ways by the book and if not a spellcaster class with a magic item or a "NONSTANDARD MAGIC ITEM" DMG p. 118 (as all combat spells should be cast in the BTGWB*) then "Emirikol" can literally be anyone or anything (god, illusion, shapechanger, etc).

*By the Gene Weigel book

It's that amulet he's got on!

This speculation over Emirikol is nothing compared to the speculation when the Brothers Hildebrandt D&D calendars came out in the early 80's.

What kind of monster is this supposed to represent? How come no one mentioned humongous bizzaro building construction in the DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE?

Premier wrote:I think the deal here is that genuine old school people (like those who wrote the books as well as their illustrators) were a lot less hung up on rigorous "Ordnung muss Sein!" adherence to rules as written than the ultraorthodoxy that makes up the Alehouse.

We're not so much ultraorthodox as fundamentalist. Trent is, famously, the Khmer Rouge of the OSR. Personally I'm the ayatollah.

PapersAndPaychecks wrote:

Premier wrote:I think the deal here is that genuine old school people (like those who wrote the books as well as their illustrators) were a lot less hung up on rigorous "Ordnung muss Sein!" adherence to rules as written than the ultraorthodoxy that makes up the Alehouse.

We're not so much ultraorthodox as fundamentalist. Trent is, famously, the Khmer Rouge of the OSR. Personally I'm the ayatollah.

Good Grief...