Knights & Knaves Alehouse

JRT wrote:I wasn't targeting this thread when I mentioned a movement, rather a trend on the bloggers to start from OD&D and eliminate classes.

Ah. The Blogs.

I'm mostly like this guy concerning the OSR Blogosphere:

Philotomy Jurament wrote:I like the Anthrax version.

You youngsters and your 2e heavy metal.

It's more along the lines of questioning elements that became so fundamentally core in later products spanning the history of AD&D that many AD&D players wouldn't think about dropping in this day and age, things that have become so archetypical not just to D&D but the sum of fantasy gaming, etc. I'm just surprised that it's a common meme amongst some of the old-school fans.

TRP reminds me that when they had talked about 2nd Ed they were even thinking of removing the Cleric, so this has been going on for a long time, although I think for widely different reasons depending on who's perspective it comes from.

JRT wrote:It's more along the lines of questioning elements that became so fundamentally core in later products spanning the history of AD&D that many AD&D players wouldn't think about dropping in this day and age, things that have become so archetypical not just to D&D but the sum of fantasy gaming, etc. I'm just surprised that it's a common meme amongst some of the old-school fans.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, here. I think it's probably only surprising because "old school" can mean so many different things. It's hard to generalize exactly what "old school" is about.

Heck, even in my games, exactly what I'm willing to drop/cut/change/add varies, depending on the kind of tone and feel that I'm after.

Edit -- possibly the willingness to drop or change those elements has to do with the adoption of the OD&D rules, in particular, as a toolkit. I think Grognardia mentioned something like that, recently. (Gene might be a counter-argument, since I don't think he fits that model.)

JRT wrote:It's more along the lines of questioning elements that became so fundamentally core in later products spanning the history of AD&D that many AD&D players wouldn't think about dropping in this day and age, things that have become so archetypical not just to D&D but the sum of fantasy gaming, etc. I'm just surprised that it's a common meme amongst some of the old-school fans.

TRP reminds me that when they had talked about 2nd Ed they were even thinking of removing the Cleric, so this has been going on for a long time, although I think for widely different reasons depending on who's perspective it comes from.

Well its been said by others that D&D best emulates D&D, not necessarily any particular set of fantasy literature or real-world cultures. That certainly plays well with you assertion that thieves and clerics are now ingrained in the D&D culture, and no doubt in some other FRPG games, tabletop and computer-driven.

Still, PJ's contention that taking the game and modifying it to fit your particular group is perfectly valid.