Knights & Knaves Alehouse

As mentioned in another one of my posts http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/ ... f=8&t=6995 I've really tightened up the awarding of XP in my latest campaign. I'm closely adhering to the DMG's BTB awarding of experience methodology.

I've actually really enjoyed keeping close track. Additionally, I think it has increased the quality of play and showcased the strength of the AD&D design. Here's some of the impact I've observed:

1. It rewards and encourages intelligent play
It is better to have a low Creatures Killed XP/Treasure Gained XP ratio.
2. DM 1 - 4 week judgment
This rule awards excellent individual play, penalizes those who were along for the ride.
3. Beauty of the AD&D design shows through
The early rapid advancement of the thieves, clerics, and fighters relative to MUs and the strong subclasses.

However, in my current campaign's eighth session, I think I hit a bit of a snag. The players have gradually learned of the awesome XP benefits for being the one to receive and use a magical item. While we certainly have had contention during the treasure division over the years (before strict XP BTB), the XP award for the player that claims an item seems to be intensifying things. Unfortunately, after one of our best sessions ever, things really came to head during the treasure division [one player describing it as "the debacle that followed some great D&D"]. Ultimately, they pretty much sold off all items, because one of the players really drove home the point that they should pay to take the items -- and most weren't willing to do so. Of course, this is something as DM I want to stay out of. But, I'm also interested in protecting the general good vibe at the game table, etc. There's a lot more to be said regarding the dynamics of the party's heated conversation, but hopefully this is enough to start some discussion.

I'm curious of the following for those inclined to post responses:
1. Do you interpret BTB the same way? Claiming character gets full magic item XP bonus to himself.
2. In your campagin, do you rule BTB on magical item XP? If not, what alternatives do you use?


Note:
BTB AD&D is the impetus for this thread. Mods feel free to move if you think it should be posted elsewhere.

I always thought that Magic Item XP, like other XP, was divided over the party. The character with the item gets the benefit of the item, but the XP is shared around among the survivors.

Not sure if that is BtB, but that's how I've always played.

I currently (can't say I've always done it that way...) rule that the character who keeps the item gets the full XP award for that item, just like with any other treasure. In my last regular campaign as DM the players were very strict about balancing XP awards for magic items vs. treasure (i.e. if a character got 1,000 XP for a magic item his cash share was reduced by 1,000 g.p.) which created some problems (e.g. if the cash-share of the treasure is less than 1,000 g.p. per character) and did lead to the players selling off a lot of marginal (and even not-so-marginal) items -- something I never remember seeing back in the 80s.

If I were to do it again (and, honestly, I have no idea when or if I'll ever run another AD&D campaign) I'd keep the item XP awards secret from the players while they're dividing the treasure so they couldn't micromanage to this extent -- if they wanted to put a cash-value on items between themselves they could, but it would be based on guesswork, not the verified XP-value of the items, and would (presumably) lead to characters with items getting more XP than characters without, though presumably this would tend to balance out over the long-term and beyond 1st-2nd level probably won't make that much difference anyway.

There is a reason you need to keep a close eye on the back stabbing thief in the group! That ring you just found that lets you fly looks better on his finger, party loyalty be damned.

Foster, great idea about keeping XPs secret, but the only people I play with are old timers who already know too much.

TFoster, thanks as always for the thoughtful comments.

If I were to do it again (and, honestly, I have no idea when or if I'll ever run another AD&D campaign) I'd keep the item XP awards secret from the players...

Actually, that's exactly what I've been doing. At first it worked like a charm. The Magic-User PC aggressively took a lot of the items (his character reminds me of a Vance type wizard). I liked this dynamic as his aggressiveness really forced his way on to an XP fast track. But, when it was discovered that he sat on the edge of 4th level when everyone else was at 2nd, an experienced group of players put 2-and-2 together...

In my last regular campaign as DM the players were very strict about balancing XP awards for magic items vs. treasure (i.e. if a character got 1,000 XP for a magic item his cash share was reduced by 1,000 g.p.) which created some problems (e.g. if the cash-share of the treasure is less than 1,000 g.p. per character) and did lead to the players selling off a lot of marginal (and even not-so-marginal) items -- something I never remember seeing back in the 80s.

This is exactly what happened at the end of the last session. Without getting into too many details, the PCs are using a local town and temple as home bases. They received pricing for the magical stuff at the temple. The party decided to cash in a scroll of protection from undead there. All in all, maybe a good decision considering some of the debts the PCs owe, etc. But, they also surrendered 20 +1 arrows for cash, because they wanted the fighters to "pay to take" those items which the fighters refused. It pained me to see the party choose this route. Neither fighter has a +1 weapon and wouldn't be effective vs. a creature requiring a +1 weapon to hit.

Flambeaux, I took another look at the BTB version and the magical item XP does indeed go to the character that takes ownership of the item. Of course, I see the convenience in ruling your way.

Fortunately, one of the players has taken the initiative in attempting to solve the party's problems. He's reading some of the suggested treasure division methods in the PHB, etc. He plans to create a party treasure division document of sorts that they all can agree on before the next session. I didn't really want to see it have to come to this. But, now that it has I'm anxious to see what he comes up with (and how the other players react).

Terrex wrote:Flambeaux, I took another look at the BTB version and the magical item XP does indeed go to the character that takes ownership of the item. Of course, I see the convenience in ruling your way.

Fortunately, one of the players has taken the initiative in attempting to solve the party's problems. He's reading some of the suggested treasure division methods in the PHB, etc. He plans to create a party treasure division document of sorts that they all can agree on before the next session. I didn't really want to see it have to come to this. But, now that it has I'm anxious to see what he comes up with (and how the other players react).

Good for one of the players taking the initiative. Beats what my last group of face-to-face players always did...

I give magic item XP to the first PC to successfully use any given magic item. I give full wealth XP to any PC that keeps treasure and specifically states that it is not to be shared.

I refuse to get involved in any monetary issues concerning PCs.

Group interaction is another measure of player quality.

In the 6+ years I've been back into gaming, I do not recall having any problems with players arguing amongst themselves regarding wealth distribution, and I've played with several different groups.

It's fun playing with adults.

TheRedPriest wrote:I give magic item XP to the first PC to successfully use any given magic item. I give full wealth XP to any PC that keeps treasure and specifically states that it is not to be shared.

I refuse to get involved in any monetary issues concerning PCs.

Group interaction is another measure of player quality.

In the 6+ years I've been back into gaming, I do not recall having any problems with players arguing amongst themselves regarding wealth distribution, and I've played with several different groups.

It's fun playing with adults.

Fortunately, it's not the norm. I'm actually really fortunate to play w/ the people I do. Keep in mind from time to time even adults may disagree or argue amongst themselves (something I've seen you do on occasion on RPG message boards...).

Terrex wrote:

TheRedPriest wrote:I give magic item XP to the first PC to successfully use any given magic item. I give full wealth XP to any PC that keeps treasure and specifically states that it is not to be shared.

I refuse to get involved in any monetary issues concerning PCs.

Group interaction is another measure of player quality.

In the 6+ years I've been back into gaming, I do not recall having any problems with players arguing amongst themselves regarding wealth distribution, and I've played with several different groups.

It's fun playing with adults.

Fortunately, it's not the norm. I'm actually really fortunate to play w/ the people I do. Keep in mind from time to time even adults may disagree or argue amongst themselves (something I've seen you do on occasion on RPG message boards...).

I don't mind being fortunate.

TheRedPriest wrote:
It's fun playing with adults.

I'm enjoying the irony!

I tend to give the players the choice at the outset as to how experience points will be handled. Either they earn what they keep, or all experience are divvied up amongst the party equally. Generally, they opt for the latter, but in instances of the former, the result is much as described above.