Muahahahahahaha

[BroccoliRage]

That's honestly all I'm looking for. I didn't see that in the books, I didn't see that in the links, and I looked it all over again.

There has to be some way this all is played.


That's all I want.

[Random]

I'll try my best to give a decent answer, and anyone who wishes may correct me (as I could be completely wrong).

It appears you are fine with determining and using disciplines, and it's just combat that has you fangled around, so here's how it works (based on my reading).

Psionic creatures find themselves engaged in psionic combat.

They all choose an attack mode (if they wish to attack) and a defense mode (I certainly hope they wish to defend), and possibly a target (if more than two creatures are involved).

The total psionic strength points (attack and defense together) of each creature is determined.

The DM cracks open his DMG to page 76, and consults the table there.

All attacks being simultaneous, combatants deduct whatever defense strength is indicated by referencing that table (and considering the modes used), unless that combatant is killed (obviously) as indicated by psychic crush, as well as whatever points their attack and defense modes cost.

If a defender is caught without a defense mode up (could happen when his defense points run dry), then consult the table on page 77 instead.

One segment has thus passed, with psionic combat being the only thing participants were able to do during that time (no movement, talking, fighting, casting, etc.).

EXCEPTION: When attacking non-psionic creatures, the attacker may only use psionic blast and must have at least 100 total psionic strength points.

The victim receives a saving throw per the table on page 78, and failure indicates a roll on the table just under that.

All apologies if I've misled you with false information (as I have never actually used 1E psionics, although I have used the 2E system). That said, after reading the 1E system just now I think it's kinda nifty.

[Random]

Oh, and if you're wanting to know "what to roll and when to roll it", the only rolls I see called for are the percentiles for death by psychic crush, the saving throws for psionic blast vs. non-psionic creatures, and the effects table for successful psionic blast vs. non-psionic creatures.

[BroccoliRage]

Thanks. That is precisely what I was looking for, more or less.

So there are no attack rolls, one jsut announces what attack/defense he is using?

[Random]

From what I gather, that is correct. There are no attack rolls, which kinda makes sense considering psionic combat is waged every segment rather than every round.

[T. Foster]

Right. In psionic vs. psionic combat there's no initiative (action is simultaneous) and no attack rolls, damage rolls (except for the Psychic Crush), or saving throws (except for a Psionic Blast upon a non-psionic creature).

Piper described psionic vs psionic combat upthread as a "rock-paper-scissors" game, which is pretty much correct -- each side picks an attack mode and a defense mode (without knowing what the other side has chosen) and they are compared via the table on DMG p. 76 -- the attacker's psionic strength total (prior to making the attack) and attack mode are cross-referenced against the defender's defense mode, and the defender either loses the indicated number of defense strength points or, if the attack mode is Psychic Crush, has the indicated percentage chance of being killed outright. Some attack modes are better vs some defense modes and vice versa, so as the combat goes on and the two sides get a better idea of the other sides' available attack and defense modes, they'll be able to adjust their own choices accordingly (which opens the door to a bluffing or rope-a-dope approach where one side or the other "holds back" certain attack or defense modes hoping to trick the other side into making a disadvantageous match-up).

This is done for both sides (i.e. both sides get a turn as attacker and as defender), the appropriate number of points are subtracted (points from attack strength for the attack mode chosen, points from defense strength for the defense mode chosen and any damage sustained during the exchange) for each side, and the combat continues, 1 exchange per segment, until 1 side runs out of defense strength points.

Once this happens combat moves to DMG p. 77 -- the attacker's current attack strength and attack mode are cross-referenced against the defender's total psionic strength (i.e. attack + defense, prior to any subtractions in this combat) to determine what happens to the defender -- losing points of attack strength, various special effects (as detailed on DMG p. 77), or the percentage chance of being killed (if the attack mode is Psychic Crush). Note that if the defender has sufficient attack strength points remaining and isn't incapacitated, he may continue attacking, even though he is no longer able to defend himself.

The strategy in this type of combat is to try to outguess your opponent and get a favorable matchup (attack vs. defense or vice-versa) to wear down your opponent's defense strength before he wears yours down. It's not as luck-based as standard combat -- the party with the higher strength totals, and the wider variety of attack and defense modes, has a huge advantage and, unless he makes a series of very bad attack/defense mode choices, should almost always win.

If the attacker is using a Psionic Blast upon a non-psionic creature, the procedure is completely different, as detailed on DMG pp. 78-79. The attacker still doesn't need to make an attack roll, he just needs to have sufficient attack strength points to make the attack (100 or more) and the target(s) have to be in range. The defender makes a saving throw based on his combined Int+Wis cross-referenced against the range (and modified by a whole list of modifiers). If the saving throw is successful, no effect. If the save fails, roll d% on the second table for the appropriate combined Int+Wis score to see what happens.

Note also that the "Psionic Strength" ratings in the MM are pretty badly fucked up compared to the values in OD&D's Eldritch Wizardry: the value shown in the MM is some cases match the EW attack strength (meaning that total psionic strength should be double that amount), in some cases match the EW total psionic strength (meaning that attack and defense strength should both be half that amount), and in some cases match the EW Psychic Potential (a number without a direct parallel in the AD&D system). I went through and made a list of these once, but I no longer remember where (whether here or on some other board).

[Random]

Thanks for the tip, Foster. I never noticed the MM had screwed up values (as I said I have only used psionics in 2E). So it would be safest to use the values from EW?

[T. Foster]

Thanks for the tip, Foster. I never noticed the MM had screwed up values (as I said I have only used psionics in 2E). So it would be safest to use the values from EW?

Found the old post which includes the EW values and what needs to be done to them to get full values (whether dividing, multiplying, or applying a formula).

[Random]

Thanks, that will save me some time and hassle (mostly in the event someone qualifies and rolls for psionic ability).

I'm trying to gather some extra PHBs for some AD&D this semester, although I plan to run some off-shoot OD&D (no supplements) here and there as well, and having accurate monsters stats is helpful.

[Marriat the Ranger]

Hey umm on this note, I've been rolling 2d10 to determine my to hit number. So ... what is the big dice for?


Thanks.


LOL explain psionics. ROFLMAO......

[Random]

It's actually not that hard to explain once you spend a few minutes reading it thoroughly, and it's especially convenient that the tables are all right there together.

[Algolei]

Dude...the only attitude is from everyone else. My mood is just fine, I'm only trying to figure it out.

See, now, I gotta totally disagree with that. Since it's taken us all so long to finally figure out what you were asking, perhaps the problem was the attitude you brought with you.

[rogatny]

Thanks for the tip, Foster. I never noticed the MM had screwed up values (as I said I have only used psionics in 2E). So it would be safest to use the values from EW?

Found the old post which includes the EW values and what needs to be done to them to get full values (whether dividing, multiplying, or applying a formula).

I've got to edit my essay based on that.

[ScottyG]

If my memory is correct, the defender does NOT pick a D mode. The best one available is automatically activated.

Scott

[ScottyG]

There may be conclicting rules on this, but I know in at least one place, the DMG I think, it states the best D mode goes up automatically.

Scott