Knights & Knaves Alehouse

Is there anything BtB on how long it takes to ready or switch weapons or shields?

Two of my DMs rule that readying/switching takes a full round.

However, considering the 1 minute length of the combat round, and that each of the combatants is making multiple actual melee attacks for each 1 game attack, it seems fair to rule that reading/switching takes negligible time.

Thoughts/references?

We've always called it a round as well. You should have been ready!

Indeed, having a weapon in hand is good advice!

The main issue for me is switching weapons (my elf normally walks around with a long bow in hand): when melee starts, I don't want to fire into that melee because of the stringent rules for firing into a melee in AD&D.

Usually I'll let someone switch and attack at end of the round. I.e.:

Round 1: Archer fires his arrows.

Round 2: drops the bow, draws melee weapon and then attacks at the end of the round. For those with multiple attacks I would only allow the one attack sequence (e.g. sword or sword+dagger).

If they had to un-sling a shield or something then they would have to miss a round. Hopefully they can hide behind some other meat shield until then

Ahriman667 wrote:Usually I'll let someone switch and attack at end of the round. I.e.:

Round 1: Archer fires his arrows.

Round 2: drops the bow, draws melee weapon and then attacks at the end of the round. For those with multiple attacks I would only allow the one attack sequence (e.g. sword or sword+dagger).

If they had to un-sling a shield or something then they would have to miss a round. Hopefully they can hide behind some other meat shield until then

I think this is very reasonable.

Given the one minute round, I wouldn't normally penalize someone for switching weapons, as long as the new weapon is readily accessible. Of course, as always, I might rule differently depending on the specific circumstances involved.

As far as BTB goes, I think there's an Oriental Adventures NWP (iaijutsu?) that requires a successful proficiency check to switch weapons in the same round, which would imply that normally it takes a round. (Might want to double check the exact rule -- I don't have OA handy.) Personally, I don't put any "BTB" stock in OA (and I also dislike NWPs in D&D), but that's just me.

Ahh... thanks for the reminder about iaijutsu ("fast draw").

Philotomy Jurament wrote:Given the one minute round, I wouldn't normally penalize someone for switching weapons, as long as the new weapon is readily accessible. Of course, as always, I might rule differently depending on the specific circumstances involved.

As far as BTB goes, I think there's an Oriental Adventures NWP (iaijutsu?) that requires a successful proficiency check to switch weapons in the same round, which would imply that normally it takes a round. (Might want to double check the exact rule -- I don't have OA handy.) Personally, I don't put any "BTB" stock in OA (and I also dislike NWPs in D&D), but that's just me.

Agree with this, with the only exception being lighting oil (which I believe states requires a round to get out and light (assuming its easily accessible and in an area where such an activity is possible).

1 segment at most for drawing a new weapon. Penalising a character a round of action for moving from spear to sword is ridiculous.

Ahriman667 wrote:Usually I'll let someone switch and attack at end of the round. I.e.:

Round 1: Archer fires his arrows.

Round 2: drops the bow, draws melee weapon and then attacks at the end of the round. For those with multiple attacks I would only allow the one attack sequence (e.g. sword or sword+dagger).

If they had to un-sling a shield or something then they would have to miss a round. Hopefully they can hide behind some other meat shield until then

I like this. I always played it as taking a full round, but never particularly liked that ruling - it makes more sense to me that drawing a weapon puts you last in initiative. I could see the full round being applied to pole axes & two-handed swords perhaps, but for smaller hand weapons, I very much like this idea.

Matthew wrote:1 segment at most for drawing a new weapon. Penalising a character a round of action for moving from spear to sword is ridiculous.

I would allow the attack at the end of the segment (so it would work the same way as casting a one segment spell), hence I wouldn't even count it. If the PC is holding another weapon, I'd probably require them to drop it on the ground to pull this off (depending on the type (a dagger for instance wouldn't be a big deal, a two handed would), and if they are engaged in hand to hand).

I think many DMs forget a combat round is a full minute, and think of it as more of a scheme about combat order and movement (which it really shines as). But even if you did look at it more in that sort of way, it would still be too stiff of a penalty against PCs IMO (esp. for pre-made modules where the module writer assumes the PCs can switch weapons without penalty, for instance, discovering in combat they are fighting a monster that can be hit only with magic or silver, and thus having to drop their normal longsword and pull out that +1 dagger).

No penalty, or perhaps -1 on initiative. That assumes the weapon being switched to is easily accessible. Digging something out of a pack or, say, stringing a bow could easily take a full round (or longer).

I give absolutely no weight to whatever OA has to say on the matter.

Pretty much no penalty unless the situation is very unusual for some reason, in which case maybe like a minor penalty of 1 to hit, to AC or to initiative as the case may be. Does not really come up that much, really.

Thanks for the replies.

Chainsaw wrote:Does not really come up that much, really.

In the campaigns I play in, it comes up all the time, as characters switch between missile and melee weapons.

Once the melee starts, using missile weapons into it is a very chancy proposition, according to the DMG rules...

prespos wrote:Thanks for the replies.

Chainsaw wrote:Does not really come up that much, really.

In the campaigns I play in, it comes up all the time, as characters switch between missile and melee weapons.

Yeah, I meant it doesn't come up much for me. My guys don't tend to walk around with missile weapons and then drop them after the first round or whatever. They usually just wield melee weapons. I would not presume to speak for everyone else's game.

Once the melee starts, using missile weapons into it is a very chancy proposition, according to the DMG rules...

Yes, I am familiar with them.