Knights & Knaves Alehouse

We have always allowed both druids and thieves to use studded leather (before UA) but damned if I can find it mentioned any place (only leather). Perhaps "back in the day" we just assumed leather included both leather and studded leather (like "metal armor" would include chain, splint, plate). Do any of you guys allow either class to use studded based on a BtB understanding (pre-UA, which I think does allow thieves to use studded at a -)?

Nope. Doesn't make sense for thieves because studded leather is "fairly bulky" - just like chain-mail - and doesn't make sense for Druids because the studs are metallic (assuming that their restriction to leather armor is for the same reason as their restriction to wooden shields - no metal).

The only way Druids can use studded leather is if the "studs" are made of giant turtle shell, or a similar "hard as metal" organic material. And no, this is not official - it is my personal house-rule.


We never allowed thieves to use studded leather until we began using the UA.
We did allow Elven chain (as per Bilbo) as a house-rule.


The UA allows thieves to wear other armors (Elfin Chain & studded leather/padded) in the "armor & weapons by class" table on page 13 & the "effects of armor on thieves' functions" table on page 22.

The Dragon magazine official errata (#103) expands this to include the other armor types on the same table.

BlackBat242 wrote:The only way Druids can use studded leather is if the "studs" are made of giant turtle shell, or a similar "hard as metal" organic material. And no, this is not official - it is my personal house-rule.

What's interesting about the Druid restriction (i.e. the restriction against metal) is that it means that some of the armors from Oriental Adventures would be acceptable (e.g. Leather Scale and Hide), allowing a base AC of up to 6 (without shield). Those particular armors aren't even particularly "Oriental" in flavor.

tauman

I allowed studded leather only for that extra bump in helping survivability.

Wizardawn wrote:I allowed studded leather only for that extra bump in helping survivability.

Yeah, I guess thats what we were doing too. F..ing power gamers.

AxeMental wrote:

Wizardawn wrote:I allowed studded leather only for that extra bump in helping survivability.

Yeah, I guess thats what we were doing too. F..ing power gamers.

Well...it is a toss up of alot of things. If there are only a couple of players, and you don't want them running multiple characters...

1. You do things like this or give them max hp for example.
2. You scale back adventures to accommodate the number of characters.
3. You design adventures around the classes being played.

...so it is not necessarily power gaming (I know...you winked), it is just tweaking things to better match the group dynamic. Many of us do this in a way since we don't commonly use henchman or hirelings. I would rather design adventures around the classes being played by the group. I don't scold if a cleric or thief is missing from the group, I just adjust for it. There are healing potions and altered resting rules to help with the lack of clerical ability...as with the 10' pole and searching rules to adventure without a thief. These are just a couple of examples. The studded leather allowance is just a subtle way to help a small group of adventurers without seeming like you are breaking rules BtB.

AxeMental wrote: Yeah, I guess thats what we were doing too. F..ing power gamers.

We have pretty much always allowed it as well. Of course, leather armour is AC 7 in OD&D and Classic, which may be the root of the decision.

Thanks for mentioning that Matt, I'll bet thats the root as well. The guy that brought us into the game started with OE and moved to 1E (we only saw 1E). He taught our first DM who then taught us and so on (so I think what we learned was a bit of a mix).

AxeMental wrote:We have always allowed both druids and thieves to use studded leather (before UA) but damned if I can find it mentioned any place (only leather). Perhaps "back in the day" we just assumed leather included both leather and studded leather (like "metal armor" would include chain, splint, plate). Do any of you guys allow either class to use studded based on a BtB understanding (pre-UA, which I think does allow thieves to use studded at a -)?

Not because of a (pre UA) BTB understanding.

But I've done so for thieves anyway, inconsistently

AxeMental wrote:We have always allowed both druids and thieves to use studded leather (before UA) but damned if I can find it mentioned any place (only leather). Perhaps "back in the day" we just assumed leather included both leather and studded leather (like "metal armor" would include chain, splint, plate). Do any of you guys allow either class to use studded based on a BtB understanding (pre-UA, which I think does allow thieves to use studded at a -)?

If I'm feeling generous

As a general rule, no, I don't allow studded for thieves, but then again, I don't think anyone has ever asked. If someone did, I'd review the material in UA and make a ruling.

I can't answer the question about Druids as I don't allow them as player characters in my game. But I'd be inclined to allow it, if the studs were made bone, dragon teeth, ironwood, etc.... if I did allow them in my game.

Just leather ONLY for druids and thieves: no studded leather.

Prespos

PS.
In UA, considering the errata in Dragon, thieves can wear ANY armor.
Of course, they suffer hefty penalties for doing this.

I'm not sure, but I think you have to be in leather (or padded), in order to backstab.

prespos wrote:I'm not sure, but I think you have to be in leather (or padded), in order to backstab.

AFAIK that limitation's not stated in UA (or anywhere else "official"); of course the hefty penalties that apply the MS and HiS attempts when wearing heavier armor likely mean that the thief will have fewer opportunities to back stab, but that's a de facto restriction, not a de jure one.

Did UA give a minus to leather for HIS and MS? I seem to remember that, but don't have my books with me.